• [object Object]@lemmy.world
    20·
    7 hours ago

    Welcome back to the USSR.

    Four people are travelling by train, in the same compartment. They share a few drinks, and start talking trash about the party and the government. One of them decides to play a joke on the others: he finds the car’s conductor and asks them to bring four cups of tea to the compartment at exactly eight o’clock.

    Meanwhile, the others in the compartment continue to insult the authorities.

    “Aren’t you afraid to criticize the party so openly?”, asks the first guy.

    “Who will hear you here?”, responds one of the others.

    “All compartments in the train are bugged, you know”, says the guy.

    “Don’t bullshit us like that”

    “You don’t believe me? Okay then. Comrade colonel, please send four cups of tea to the fifth compartment”, speaks the guy loudly.

    A couple minutes later, the door opens, and the conductor brings in four cups of tea. The others in the compartment fall silent, and hurriedly go to sleep.

    In the morning, the guy wakes up and discovers himself to be the only one in the compartment. When the conductor comes around, he asks: “Where have the others gone? They were supposed to be travelling further than me.”

    “I don’t know about that”, responds the conductor, “But comrade colonel really liked your joke.”

  • otp@sh.itjust.works
    81·
    11 hours ago

    Yes, it’s safe.

    The microphones are generally not listening to and processing everything you say.

    You can turn off your own devices’ passive listening. (E.g., Siri, Google, Alexa…)

    If they do listen to what you say, they’re almost always not going to care beyond “How can we use this to sell you shit you don’t need?”.

    It would be too much effort for too little gain, even with AI, to try to “catch” anybody for your “satirical jokes and banter”. In the government’s eyes, you’re not as special as you feel you are.

    And even if they did, you’re unlikely to be charged for a crime unless you live in somewhere like North Korea, China, Iran, or maybe the UAE?

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
      44·
      18 hours ago

      I’m really confused here, what do you mean?

      I’m referring to two friends right next to each other, talking silly shit in person, like what’s the random phone microphone and associated AI think of the words it hears?

      We (me and my roommate) just got done joking about a crazy woman that wanted to have 6 babies with me and wanted to move to Canada 😂🤣

      I’m not asking about any AI chatbot, I’m asking what do the random phone microphones and associated AI systems think of random jokes it heard?

      • RidcullyTheBrown@lemmy.world
        31·
        18 hours ago

        OP is responding to your original question. If you’re asking if it safe to do it, then you are worried about the consequences of doing it and wonder if you should stop. That would mean that you are “obeying a rule before it exists”.

        As to your current comment, you should understand that current “AI” solutions do not think anything. If the current solutions were used for mass surveillance, then they would be used to classify your actions in some predefined way and whomever is using them will use this classification in some (possibly nefarious) unknown way

        • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
          22·
          18 hours ago

          Yo, you both make good points. Sorry I didn’t explain the joke/banter we were discussing.

          We (in person) were joking for around 10 minutes or so about a crazy woman that literally wanted to have 6 children with me and move to Canada.

          She’s crazy and was recently evicted, but we continue to joke about it. But it really makes me wonder, what if the microphones and AI shit around hear our silly banter and take it seriously, like thinking I’m about to move to Canada (I’m not).

          Long question short, does AI know the difference between serious words or jokes?

          • reksas@sopuli.xyz
            2·
            12 hours ago

            i talked about subject like this with someone who is an anarchist and attends kind of protests that can get you in trouble and he wasnt that worried about it. It was in finland though, so there is that too. if i lived in america i would be way more worried too considering what is happening there.

            But lets assume that your microphone is recording everything you say to some llm, and everyone else too. imagine the shitshow it must be to sort all that data, considering how unreliable llm are. There is no way to know for sure what the original meaning and intention of words is without actual human confirming it. there would be so much constantly going on that even with decent automation it would be nightmare to manage, i think.

            and the subject you joked about is so innocent too. If you were talking about violently opposing the regime as a joke or something else like that, then it would be prudent to practice better security. I have occasionally tried to investigate if my phone is listening even though it doesnt indicate so, but i havent noticed anything that would point to that. I dont know THAT much about it either though. Though if you have all the bloatware installed and llm stuff enabled then it probably does listen constantly, but i dont think you would have them since you are worried about this.

            There is also this nice program called tracercontrol, it lets you know what spying libraries programs have on your phone and you can also cut them off internet with it, and also selectively block the traffic so only necessary traffic is allowed (it does require some getting used to, but its not that difficult imo.) There is some version of it in googles malwareshop called google play, but i downloaded it from f-droid. There is also similar program called re-think, which is even more heavyduty, though i think it uses battery faster. but at least you can control even better what goes in and out of your phone with it.

            And why do you even care what the companies think about you? also, isnt it better less accurate information they have about you? let them think you are moving to canada with 15 kids, to decorate garages with ornamental potatoes and live off the good wibes of the universe.

            • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1·
              5 hours ago

              But lets assume that your microphone is recording everything you say to some llm, and everyone else too. imagine the shitshow it must be to sort all that data, considering how unreliable llm are. There is no way to know for sure what the original meaning and intention of words is without actual human confirming it. there would be so much constantly going on that even with decent automation it would be nightmare to manage, i think.

              filtering for interesting words in a transcription would go a long way. I’m not convinced they would need an LLM for this. keyword based targeted advertising was a thing for quite a fewyears before LLMs became widespread.

              I have occasionally tried to investigate if my phone is listening even though it doesnt indicate so, but i havent noticed anything that would point to that.

              I have friends of all ages who are not really technically adept, and not caring much about privacy either, but who tell me from time to time that it’s like facebook is listening, because of some ad they saw on there. I still don’t have any clue how are they pulling that off, and I hear it too much to accept it being a coincidence.

              but I don’t use facebook, I refuse to use their apps, my phone is clean from google too, while theirs is littered with every garbage in addition to the factory bloat, so I can’t do much to figure it out

              • reksas@sopuli.xyz
                1·
                5 hours ago

                if you dont block some applications from internet, they definitely are listening somehow. not sure if they can bypass the microphone permission, but if any has constant access then that is that. what i meant that the phone itself doesnt seem to have thing where it listens on you. average user who is not technically adept at all will have their phone riddled with spyware so no wonder they are seeing targeted ads.

                Fakebook is just facilitating the ads, the advertising companies are the ones with the data. Though what facebook does with it is likely that they try manipulate you through their algorithm, suggesting stuff they want you to see based on the data collected. Be it for increased addiction, manipulation of opinions or something else.

          • Kwiila@slrpnk.net
            2·
            16 hours ago

            To answer your question MUCH more concisely: with a probability, within a context limit.

      • Kwiila@slrpnk.net
        1·
        16 hours ago

        I think I understand your question. They’re still right about your premature fear being the weakest lack of resistance to oppressive forces, but to actually address your question:

        AI “understands” (doesn’t really “understand”) context within a context limit (token limit). If you’re worried the shit you’re saying will be profiled for a future AI overload, or some equivalence in a political/social system. My best guess is if any AI had reason to preserve such data, it would be presented within a contextual sincerity probability. You know how like some people are joking, but they’re actually just testing the waters for social acceptability, in contrast to “the Aristocrats” style “see how awful the joke can get” humor. If the ai overlord manages to collate some profile from all your data for all the shit you say, it would have a “60% - this was a weird time for such a joke”; “70% - this joke was presented as a kernel of truth”; “80% - that joke was made to establish & enforce group values.” Thus between them know that one time you said “just joking bro” you weren’t really just joking.

        A broader profile would be able to check if your humor is in contrast to your actions, or is concurrent with it. For example, if your friend tells a racist joke, and you join in, whether your other profiled interactions have concurrence with that opinion, or reproduce it.

        If you’re just worried about an AI agent trying to sell you baby stuff now, that depends on prerogative and alignment based on context limits. As someone who likes to push AI to see how deep in its training data it actually holds the things it says; If i say something kind of ridiculously awful out of nowhere, it usually responds with something akin to “haha, I know you’re joking, but I AM obligated to correct some underlying assumptions of the joke” but that’s with the most popular corporate AI alignment. I can get a similar result with some equivalent “user is a trash edgelord who says terrible things for shock value, but is actually a great person who doesn’t believe any of it when it counts” in the context tokens of other AI.

        Non-corporate alignment especially, with very limited context tokens, or no context, will try to reduce social “friction” and with a probability might either escalate the humor “Haha more like seven babies amirite?”, escalate the joke to pipeline propaganda “Actually, this is a common women be crazy, the manosphere shows tons of examples as per my Andrew Tate training data, you should listen to more of his stuff”, or just flat out contradict me altogether.

        Long story short, Depends on other available context. If you’re worried about inevitable AI overlords, you can’t both tell nearly-bigoted jokes AND watch/reference bigoted content. If you’re worried about a judgy AI agent, don’t. It doesn’t care, it doesn’t effect you, and if it did, you can just affect it’s context data to alter the interaction.

        And either way, worrying about an AI judging you is just the first step to being oppressed.

  • hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world
    5·
    14 hours ago

    Yes it is.

    If it’s not, that has to do with you becoming an explicit target of 3-lettter agencies beforehand. Look, it’s legally risky and expensive to collect data from people, evaluate it and draw conclusions. You can become a big enough target for those agencies to reason that it’s worth it, but you gotta work really hard to get there.

    In fact, the most likely thing for any given random person is either getting caught up in phishing attacks or getting chased by a PI at the mercy of family or a former partner that is holding grudges.

    What I’m saying is yes, there’s a tiny chance that it’s not safe but if it really was dangerous for you to speak, you would probably already know.

    Famously at Edward Snowden’s first interview the NSA was tapping him and he was chased around right up until they lost jurisdiction and so every TSA checkpoint became dangerous for him. But everyone who thinks they are just as endangered as Edward Snowden is most likely just paranoid.

  • forestbeasts@pawb.social
    41·
    13 hours ago

    Honestly, might not be.

    Turning your phone off, and having the friend turn their phone off, probably helps. Computers are easier to put free/open, trustable OSes on, and easier to put into real sleep, unless it’s one of those newfangled laptops that don’t have a real sleep mode. Even for phones a degoogled Android like say Lineage should help, IF you have one of the (many) devices it’s ported to (and then don’t install proprietary apps on the thing – even if the app itself isn’t sketchy, they could include an SDK that does sketchy stuff; you’re not just trusting the app, you’re trusting its dependencies too).

    That’s a bit much just for silly banter though. But probably worth it for serious conversations.

    Then again, if you take precautions even for silly banter times, then it’ll be harder to tell whether you’re talking about something that needs to be confidential or not (like how everyone using encryption for mundane stuff makes it safer to use encryption). So yeah I don’t know.

    – Frost

  • CovfefeKills@lemmy.world
    12·
    18 hours ago

    Depends where you are from. What are you saying that is so horrible that you need to be this paranoid?

    Imagine how many times NSA agents/spys in general have witnessed/recorded evidence of fathers raping their children and have done nothing about it.

    Unless you are a political enemy there is no immediate threat.

    If you want to speculate on social credit stuff in the background we can speculate that you were flag as being a potential candidate to work on epstien island because you have the appropriate sense of humor or something jeez dude what jokes about a women have you acting like the government is going to get ya?

  • OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world
    11·
    18 hours ago

    Probs listening/gathering data of your conversations. For jokes it might be helping to give AI context for humour. I always notice ChatGPT understanding black humour more, so mabs thats why?

    Would be weird to see a headline of “2 boys charged with offensive banter as phone secretly listens and calls police”