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Because all your proof hinges on matter being real and prior.

regardless of who is percieving it.

And since we require perception to say anything about matter, what does that say about which comes first, matter or consciousness?

Consciousness is a material, measurable process

Again, prove it. It is YOUR system of thought which requires that every claim must be backed with objective proof. Where is the objective proof of matter? All the rest you’re saying hingest upon that being a fact. But if you can’t prove it as a fact, all you have is an unverified belief that you insist everyone else should have. Which, again, makes you exactly the same as any other oppressor. In your own system of thought. And before you parade some scientists in front of me, ask yourself if you can know that they know what they are talking about, or do you just believe them because they share the same core belief system as you?

Oh you were SO CLOSE to getting it.

Why can’t materialists prove it though? By all their own rules, they should.

The ideas of people like Kastrup and Hoffman rely on consciousness being distinct from matter, and not a product of matter.

Yes. Good. You got it. Now definitively prove that consciousness arises from matter and not the other way around. No, brainwave scans exist in consciousness. Everything you say exists in consciousness. Prove to yourself that ANYTHING exists outside your consciousness, prior to thought (as thought is only a reflection of what is, like an image in a mirror but it’s not the thing itself).

Else, you are just insisting that your beliefs are the correct ones without proof. All I need to prove consciousness is be. You’re the one insisting on extra steps. You’re just taking materialism as a fact because that’s what you’re used to doing. You put the block of materialism at the bottom and use the blocks you put on it to try to prove it. This is called circular reasoning.

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Can’t do it huh? For all your talk of science, you sure are ready to take the belief in materialism for granted. Just another belief you demand others have, demand others have the same thoughts as you. The road towards fascism is short indeed.

Unless you can provide scientific proof, I have no reason to subscribe your belief system and neither does anyone else. Go read https://www.bernardokastrup.com/ or https://bradleyhook.com/donald-hoffmans-concepts-simplified-understanding-reality-and-perception/, debunk them and you probably have grounds for your ideology. Else, it’s just another house of cards built on a foundation of fiction.

Nice strawman equating nonduality with flat earth and other materialistic religions. Top critical thinking, very science and logic.

If you are so sure of your stance, prove to me that matter exists outside consciousness. And good goddess, at least try to do better than pointing at an extracted brain will you? Nonduality has been around for thousands of years and it’s yet to be debunked despite there being a very clear criteria for it.

Tell me you don’t know shit about spirituality without telling me you don’t know shit about spirituality.

I said Zen Buddhism is a start. Not the end.

Aw, did your brain just go “nooo I need others to think how I think”. Congratulations, you just unlocked tyranny.

Get into non-dual spirituality. Zen Buddhism is a good start. Stop thinking you can win the cycle of suffering by spinning the wheel a little differently.

Marxist nonsense will succumb to the exact same human frailties as capitalism. Greed, tribalism. It’s the same thing, they just demonize a different group of people and thought. They’re still creating a division and separation. No system of thought that’s not grounded in what can be said to be inarguably TRUE is free from tyranny - the only way out is to release your attachment to anything that could be used to control you, to force you to act unlike you truly feel called to act.

Materialism is the ultimate means of oppression. And it’s something you’ve been conditioned to believe in since birth. Socialists, communists etc. still rely on materialism to drive their ideology and somehow think they’re better because they make nice noises about equality. Childish. At least capitalism is logically consistent with it.

Unless you are willing to take a really fucking hard look at your core beliefs about the nature of reality, you will not change anything. You’re just giving the leash of materialism around your neck to a different master.

Reasons vary between people. It’s not important. If you want to know, ask the people in question.

Don’t think everyone SHOULD be doing it like you. If you feel like being upbeat, be upbeat. ACCEPT not everyone is but they don’t get to force their view on you either.

It’s naive to think one way is more “right” than the other.