Wait, what the hell?
I can’t believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?
They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn’t seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)
Not an Apple user, so I didn’t know about this. Extremely disappointing.
It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.
You think this wouldn’t happen elsewhere?
It’s not just an American thing, it’s an asshoke thing, and those people are everywhere, and will always find a way.
Of course it can happen elsewhere.
Just US has a massive influence on tech platforms, and they are currently under-going an oligarch takeover (oligarch influence was already bad irrespective of whether the far right or centre right was in power).
Mind you I am not anti-American. I have largely always defended the US as a matter of pragmatism (it is the largest and most influential democracy-leaning country with a measure of respect for human right). US has done really bad things, but they have done good things as well. I can’t say the same about say China or Russia.
even the OP phone is considering doing a soft-blocking of bootloader
Yes the largest economy in the world is an economic dead end. Do you know why so many countries are sucking off Trump? They want access to American dollars. And no diversification doesn’t work because what do you replace America with, there isn’t some untapped multi trillion dollar economy just sitting there. It sucks and I don’t get why the world let it happen but it is where we are and it we’ll hurt to change it and nobody seems like they want to do the work.
us has made every country dependant on it, which is why the brics was created o offeset it, but it isnt doing really good right now.
I clarified what I meant by economic dead end. It’s not going to happen tomorrow or even in ten years. But absolute corruption, rollback of democracy and a population where a large number of people support crime and corruption will have a caustic effect in the long term. It’s a straw man to suggest that I was claiming an immense collapse in American economic might.
At one point the “sun never set on the British empire” and now the British empire is no more. There are also examples of economies that were once top end, but are now closer to middle income.
I don’t think you understand the extent to which American “soft power” is being eroded right now. What countries have you lived in? What languages other than English do you speak? Do you have close friends in other countries?
Of course America is major economy, that doesn’t mean the rest of the world doesn’t exist. Just look at the state of Chinese products in the early 2000s and where they are now.
People don’t like thugs and liars, especially ones who are constantly parroting polemics about “freedom for this and that” while engaging in criminality and opposing democracy.
The EU can’t even distribute their own apps without Play Integrity. Seems unlikely they will care.
Google says it’s no different than checking IDs at the airport
What, and Google is now the TSA? Fuck that shit. I’ve paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!
Okay, let’s check ids wherever you leave the house, since that’s the sane as checking them at the airport.
Papers please, right?
I’d argue those aren’t the same. ID is checked at the airport for legal entry into another country and the security is on both sides. A lot of countries don’t require people to carry or present ID while walking around in their own country short of a crime having been committed.
google likely has that data already, use any of thier apps, they got it, searching on google, taking pictures, emails.
google is pretty aggressively trying to datamine people for a while, Reddit is thier playgound.
I can’t say anything for the Reddit part of what you said but I agree with Google’s unethical datamining. It’s no secret what Google has been doing. I remember when the tinfoil-hat-wearers were warning people about those nifty little Google speakers people were generously inviting into their homes, telling them to watch what they were saying in the general vicinity of the speakers, that Google could be using them to listen to every conversation. The naysayers said “They wouldn’t do that, that’d be illegal. The speaker only listens when I say ‘Hey Google’ and they wouldn’t be saving what I say anyway!”. Lo and behold, it finally got leaked that was wrong, that the speakers were listening 24/7 and Google was keeping everything. I could be wrong but I recall something going around that Google even admitted they were keeping the recordings. Suddenly the conversation died down, there was no lawsuit for espionage or any such thing and the naysayers suddenly converted to “I’ve got nothing to hide, I don’t care if I’m being recorded”. Ignorance remains forever blissful, it would seem.
Quick note for the pedantic: No, it’s not just Google. Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are doing it too. If there’s a microphone in your house, be mindful of what you’re saying around it; you never know how an innocuous conversation might be used against you.
I’ve paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!
You bought a phone but is leasing the software. It’s not yours to do with as you please.
Have you considered using fully open source android versions?
The few options that exist (along with their negatives) can’t be installed on my phone. N20U is still pretty much locked down.
Then do what I do when buying your next phone, find a custom ROM you like, check their “comparability” page, find devices that are fully compatible, preferably officially supported (community build usually work fine as well) and use that as a shopping list when browsing for phones.
Open source Android is a thing??? TIL that might be my solution to this long term since I sideload apps regularly.
Just be mindful of what ROM you’re putting on your device. That ROM can still have access to everything you have on there so it should be a source you trust.
Search for your device name and “custom ROM” to see what’s out there. Some are completely Google free, others retain different levels of Google play support, including downloading existing purchases.
No custom ROM on a recent smartphone technically gives you a fully open source Android system when they rely on vendor-provided proprietary blobs in order for basic hardware functionality to work at all. Unless you want to go without a modem, GPS, and likely more depending on your model, at which point it’s functionally no longer a smartphone.
Open-source custom ROMs are at least far more open-source than the alternative in most of the ways that matter most, including the ability to change the code in order to remove app installation restrictions, to avoid Google’s telemetry, etc.
Would the proprietary blobs in the baseband hardware stop the end user from installing software, which is the topic of concern?
If no, is this a irrelevant “achtually”-reply?
I’d argue it’s worth knowing what you risk losing from your device in the name of sideloading software so it’s not irrelevant to point out your phone might not be a phone by the end of the procedure.
For your security we’re going to block your access to FOSS and apps that let you avoid our ads. This is totally not a business decision. Pinky swear.
for the greater good
This good is gonna be so great after we lose everything to the worst of us.
and avoid our datamining capabilities, and the intrusive AI we keep pushing on unwanted customers. we knew thier android core app(spyware) was the first step. they probably want that to permanantly installed into everyones phone.
Google says it’s no different than checking IDs at the airport.
You’re not a fucking airport, Google!
Also we bought and own the fucking plane! Don’t tell us where we can fly to!
Better. We bought the airport. Google was paid to pave the runway and maintain it for a couple years after. And now they try to dictate that only planes they approve may start and land.
While stealing and selling all the data from the passengers.
i dont need to show id to fly domestic…
Ah, but Google is never flying domestic. They sell your data internationally.
No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We’ll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?
This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.
You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn’t exactly rocket science.
Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.
It’s just unnecessary red tape.
It’s just unnecessary red tape.
Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.
How will fdroid work
Fdroid itself and every package they host will have to be signed.
Maybe there are still workarounds, like enabling dev mode on your phone, but still tedious.
It will kill everyone that is playing around with the phones. I have done a couple mobile projects where I just sideloaded the package I created to quickly test it and to demo it to people. Now that I can’t do that why would I develop for your platform by choice.
Its 2050, you are waiting outside of the HR Office waiting for them to talk to you. You’re certain that your job has just been replaced by a robot.
Fuck this shit, you thought, 90% of the people are unemployed anyways, fuck this 16 hour shift.
You pull out your hand terminal (yes a “hand terminal”, as “smartphones” no longer have local storage now, almost all computing is done on cloud) and start typing in your journal app: “Down with the regime, Down with tyranny!”. You tap “save”.
“Action not authorized. This incident has been reported”
2 seconds later, you can hear sirens in the distance growing louder and louder.
This gas no basis in reality. No way that society makes it to 2050.
The ultra wealthy are building bunkers. Preserving any form of society no longer interests them.
they wont be able to sustain it, without the 'worker" slaves turning on them, what more likely to happen is they live in the pristine cities while everyone else not part of that circle is in the slums outside the city.
it will be worst, since most people wont have jobs, and are outside the cities in SLUMS. think ds9 2024 episode, or 4400 show.
I first read the original report from Android Authority thinking it would only be an additional hurdle for third-party stores and developers, but I’m now thinking that it would potentially block the use of ReVanced
Yeah I don’t know what they’ll block yet but I’m already assuming some of my apps will be blocked. It’s pretty terrible news. I really didn’t want to have to hunt down a phone that was compatible with alternative OS’s.
From my understanding, it will only allow apps that were registered, so since ReVanced uses identical package names to the patched apps, it probably won’t work unless they start using ReVanced-specific package names that are tied to their identity. But that would allow Google to block these package names (or ban ReVanced completely) if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.
if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.
… who owns YouTube?
Yeah, they’re going to block ReVanced.
Unless revanced somehow gets the APKs resigned it will almost certainly destroy revanced.
What if I come up with a random package name, like “online.discuss.jim3692”, register that name and a keypair, and then build ReVanced using that name and keys?
google can just revoke it if they dont like it. they certainly want to become apple down the line.
Because Google will find out and revoke the key
What if I keep the apks for me and my family, instead of publicly releasing them.
This is probably similar to the state of Piped and Invidious. Google tries to kill them, so we are hosting private instances, instead of relying on public ones.
and any apk installed eventually, and custom OS, that doesnt come from the google store front. im not tech savvy but im using apk of many apps right now. if only someone can develop a “storefront” where it seperate from google.
I mean, there’s fdroid…. For now
God I wish not everything was American
Pretty sure my iPhone is from China.
Lol
And that’s the biggest issue. Every hoddam thing in tech is American.
We really need some global competition in tech. It’s the main reason why I’m rooting for China when I read that they’re developing new consumer tech. Bring some damn competition and hopefully these American tech companies will learn to stop enshitifying their products.
Chinese version of YouTube (bilibili (B站)) has built in sleep timer functionality.
That beats the hell out of the adverts and autoplay rubbish YouTube subjects people not using Invidious or Piped to.
The current trends and direction of tech is making me want to become Amish…
I’m getting so fucking sick of everything turning into shit, what’s even the point of fucking point anymore? This is borderline kernel level enshitification
The Amish that I grew up near were big into shunning, child marriage, sexual abuse, not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.
I’m just saying it might be easier to switch to open source or something.
not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.
TIL I’m 2/5ths Amish
Go outside and touch grass.
only malware i have read about on android have came from google’s oh so safe store.
Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk’s on your phone for years and they’re getting more and more aggressive about it. It’s not a question of if they’ll disallow it completely, but when.
It’s already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.
Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.
Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn’t pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn’t, it will complain and close itself.
GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.
And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the “App Integrity” option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.
As you can see, it’s one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don’t want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.
This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.
The people coming up with these ideas should be lynched.
AdAway can be easily emulated using a DNS server…
Yeah I carry that DNS server around with me in the other pocket /s
Oddly enough your phone is more than powerful enough to do that.
Idk why you’re meming, it’s easy as hell to run it on device, or you can just use dns.adguard.com instead
To be fair, unless you’re using a private, controllable DNS with a frontend interface (like NextDNS, Pihole, etc) – DNS ad blocking is “all or nothing”. Those apps let you control which apps and services and domains come through.
I’m aware, I choose to use the adguard one but I’ve used the on-device ones in the past
How can that be legal?
Because Apple does it
Fuck.
So I guess my next phone will be a Chinese phone. Even if it spies on me, I’ll have the freedom to install whatever I want from anywhere.
The Chinese have a golden window of opportunity. Let’s hope they don’t mess this up.
LOL. Chinese phones are way worse, they simply block installations of “unsanctioned” apps with no workaround.
My wife is Chinese and I used to live there for 7 years, it’s an absolute privacy nightmare.
I have a Xiaomi 14 pro, I just have to tap the correct button to install an outside app. (It’s in Chinese, even though the phone is set to English, so i have no idea what it says but it gets me there).
If you bought it outside of China that might be a thing, for Chinese phones it shows a cancel button only. There is a confirm button, but it’s greyed out and not clickable.
So I bought it from giztop, they take the Chinese version of the phone, get the Google play store on there and get it set to English, plus a couple other things, so that it’s easier for you to get started with. I bought this because I had thought they’d make a global version and I could flash that rom when that happened, and only deal with some Chinese sections of the phone for a short while, but for some reason they didn’t with this specific phone, they did for the 14 ultra.
I busted the phone out again to see the popup I was talking about, but actually one of the (semi) recent updates made it so the buttons are english. I am allowed to just install things with a few pop-up warnings and the phone does some kind of check. I wonder if it’s because it’s an “unlocked” phone (I don’t know if it’s the same in China where a carrier locks the phone to their network and has their own shit installed if you buy it from them) or what.
Either way, interesting.
So many people don’t understand this at all. China is still the same as when the tanks were rolling over college students.
Way easier to install a custom rom
Apart from Xiaomi and OnePlus, which are released for international audiences, I’m not aware of a single Chinese phone with active rom development.
Honor, Huawei, Poco, Oppo, …the list goes on.
Oppo = OnePlus
Huawei bootlaoders can’t be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Honor bootlaoders can’t be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Poco seems possible for now, never used one of their phones, but well good that there’s something possible.
If you dont want to put a custom rom on it (which is becoming increasingly difficult), you’re can buy a HK version off taobao.
As someone who uses a Xiaomi phone, that’s not true.
It was a faff getting it to install any random apk I found of off the Internet, but it was possible. Did involve holding down a graphic for 10 seconds as part of the unlock procedure.
But for now at least, you can still install any unsigned apk without going through a store.
I guess if GrapheneOS finally gets spoken to by a manufacturer interested in filling this market gap, that would be awesome too.
Hell, maybe it could be a chinese manufacturer.
GrapheneOS is currently actively talking to a major Android OEM in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. If that succeeds GrapheneOS will be able to run on non-Pixel devices.
Oh please let this work out
Timewindow 2026, perhaps 2027 for release of such devices. Talks have been going on for a few months, if it wasn’t working out at all that probably should’ve been clear already.
I am very happy with my One Plus 13 phone. It has better hardware and was at a better price than Samsung’s S25.
Samsung used to be good. I used to always buy samsung but since I can’t affort a “high end” device, I go with the medium end ones, and samsung medium end ones are terrible for the price. So instead of getting a medium end samsung, you can get something better and cheaper on another brand
Samsung always seems to have the paradigm of good hardware with shitty software, and with their recent phones they seem to manage to enshittify both.
So you either need to put a custom/global rom on it, get the hk version, or pay like 20% more for a global version.
Bonus problems, AT&T in the US kicked off the international phone versions a while back. They worked fine. I have a bunch of leftover G4 international versions that they up and banned one day around 2020. The terrible US version remained allowed.
Time for a hard fork.
