That’s not always true. Finding the optimal way to do something is only one potential aspect of practice. Another is getting to a level where you can do it consistently and on demand, over and over and over, without missing a beat.
And even once you’ve reached that level, that skill can be lost or degrade over time if you dont keep at it, so repeatedly performing the same motions in the exact same way becomes pretty much necessary in order to maintain your skill level.
Not necessarily. If you are learning a skill that requires accuracy (e.g. darts), you will sdo the same thing ovre and over. In the beginning the result will be that you will hardly be able to hit the board at all, and after a ton of practice the result will be that you will hit where you want to hit.
So by doing the same thing over and over again you will get a different result.
Every time I go to the park, I’m able to knock balls right out the park with my favorite bat. Am I more likely to get a career in major league baseball or arrested for animal cruelty?
Your argument is on par with arguing that because you saw an article about people playing base that you think we should arrest everyone in the stadium for animal cruelty.
People also understand degrees of meaning and hyperbole. The fact that you seem to think that my response was a comeback shows exactly why you are struggling with this entire argument.
Finding? How are you going to find it? Since you’re arguing to never change what you’re doing in practice the very first attempt at practice must be the thing you always repeat right?
Why are you pretending I said things I didn’t say? Finding the optimal way of doing something involves getting it wrong before you get it right. We all know this. What I was talking about was not greenhorn entry-level practice, but the practice of an expert who has already figured that much out. Obviously, you have to learn the right way to do something before you can do it the right way.
Ask literally any half-decent guitarist if trying to do the same exact thing in the same exact way helps or hurts their skill. Now ask a martial artist. A dancer. A singer. A painter. An engineer. A carpenter. Even a bowler, as someone else already mentioned. These are all skills that are honed through repitition.
In the spirit of the dialogue, I am going to repeat myself because it seems like I might need to; none of them got it right the first time. But after they did get it right, I guarantee you, their practice became about doing it again in exactly the same way. And then, once they were happy with their newly refinded skill, they learn something else and start that cycle again.
What’s that Bruce Lee quote? “I do not fear the man that has practiced a thousand moves once. I fear the man that has practiced one move a thousand times”. Skill comes with understanding and understanding comes with focus. At first, you focus on placing your fingers on exactly the right frets at exactly the right time, and then, after you’ve figure that out and can do it correctly, you focus on doing it over and over again until you’re sure that can always do it exactly the way you want to, whenever you want it done. This isn’t esoteric lore. It’s common sense.
Finding the optimal way of doing something involves getting it wrong before you get it right. We all know this. What I was talking about was not greenhorn entry-level practice, but the practice of an expert who has already figured that much out. Obviously, you have to learn the right way to do something before you can do it the right way.
If that’s the point, then I had it right the first time, and only seemed to lose you when I followed the idea to its obvious next leg. After you figure out how to do it right, then the rest of that initial comment comes into play.
You not following along well enough until it’s been reiterated and fed to you as directly and simply as possible is not the dunk you seem to think it is.
You said that practicing something the same way over and over is wrong, fullstop. I said that’s not always true because after a certain point, that is the exact kind of practice that keeps the skill ready. I miss, lose, and never find many points, but I see this one clear as day. Your absolute statement was not absolutely true, and it’s really just not that big of a deal.
While I don’t appreciate that you misconstrued what I said earlier, wilfully or otherwise, I also don’t think that’s a rightful excuse for me to get as rude with you as I chose to. So, take it or leave it, I offer my apologies for that.
If you’re practicing the exact same way over and over you’re doing something wrong.
You must not be a bowler.
That’s not always true. Finding the optimal way to do something is only one potential aspect of practice. Another is getting to a level where you can do it consistently and on demand, over and over and over, without missing a beat.
And even once you’ve reached that level, that skill can be lost or degrade over time if you dont keep at it, so repeatedly performing the same motions in the exact same way becomes pretty much necessary in order to maintain your skill level.
If you were looking for consistency, that is by definition you looking for the same result, which is not covered in the definition of insanity.
Oops. I appreciate you clearing up the confusion. You ever just feel like a big dumb idiot sometimes? Cause I sure do.
I do feel like that sometimes, so completely understandable.
Not necessarily. If you are learning a skill that requires accuracy (e.g. darts), you will sdo the same thing ovre and over. In the beginning the result will be that you will hardly be able to hit the board at all, and after a ton of practice the result will be that you will hit where you want to hit.
So by doing the same thing over and over again you will get a different result.
If your results are different, then by definition what you did was not exactly the same.
Ok, let’s try this a different way:
“I’m gonna get a drink.” - “I’m gonna do the same.”
Is the second person going to immitate every single motion of the first person?
Or will the second person just also get a drink, maybe not even the same drink?
Every time I go to the park, I’m able to knock balls right out the park with my favorite bat. Am I more likely to get a career in major league baseball or arrested for animal cruelty?
Your argument is on par with arguing that because you saw an article about people playing base that you think we should arrest everyone in the stadium for animal cruelty.
There’s a saying in German: “Nicht alles was hinkt ist ein Vergleich”.
Roughly translated: “Not everything which is flawed is an analogy.”
People do say “I’m going to do the same” when doing something that has the same kind of outcome without being an identical copy of an action.
People do not use a bat (animal) as a replacement for a bat (sports equipment) because usually people understand the concept of homonyms.
That’s really not the comeback that you think it is.
People also understand degrees of meaning and hyperbole. The fact that you seem to think that my response was a comeback shows exactly why you are struggling with this entire argument.
Finding? How are you going to find it? Since you’re arguing to never change what you’re doing in practice the very first attempt at practice must be the thing you always repeat right?
Why are you pretending I said things I didn’t say? Finding the optimal way of doing something involves getting it wrong before you get it right. We all know this. What I was talking about was not greenhorn entry-level practice, but the practice of an expert who has already figured that much out. Obviously, you have to learn the right way to do something before you can do it the right way.
Ask literally any half-decent guitarist if trying to do the same exact thing in the same exact way helps or hurts their skill. Now ask a martial artist. A dancer. A singer. A painter. An engineer. A carpenter. Even a bowler, as someone else already mentioned. These are all skills that are honed through repitition.
In the spirit of the dialogue, I am going to repeat myself because it seems like I might need to; none of them got it right the first time. But after they did get it right, I guarantee you, their practice became about doing it again in exactly the same way. And then, once they were happy with their newly refinded skill, they learn something else and start that cycle again.
What’s that Bruce Lee quote? “I do not fear the man that has practiced a thousand moves once. I fear the man that has practiced one move a thousand times”. Skill comes with understanding and understanding comes with focus. At first, you focus on placing your fingers on exactly the right frets at exactly the right time, and then, after you’ve figure that out and can do it correctly, you focus on doing it over and over again until you’re sure that can always do it exactly the way you want to, whenever you want it done. This isn’t esoteric lore. It’s common sense.
Congratulations that was the point.
If that’s the point, then I had it right the first time, and only seemed to lose you when I followed the idea to its obvious next leg. After you figure out how to do it right, then the rest of that initial comment comes into play.
You not following along well enough until it’s been reiterated and fed to you as directly and simply as possible is not the dunk you seem to think it is.
Oh look you lost the point again.
You said that practicing something the same way over and over is wrong, fullstop. I said that’s not always true because after a certain point, that is the exact kind of practice that keeps the skill ready. I miss, lose, and never find many points, but I see this one clear as day. Your absolute statement was not absolutely true, and it’s really just not that big of a deal.
While I don’t appreciate that you misconstrued what I said earlier, wilfully or otherwise, I also don’t think that’s a rightful excuse for me to get as rude with you as I chose to. So, take it or leave it, I offer my apologies for that.