Do you expect bsky to ban ICE? They already have a job posting to join the Gestapo in their profile, is that not enough?
Someone at bsky verification team looked at this, and instead of flagging the account to be reviewed and removed, they pressed the “verify” button. If you give them the benefit of doubt, this was a mistake from someone on the verification team, but realistically speaking a corporate platform turning into a Nazi bar is quite natural nowadays.
I don’t know how else to say it: you keep falling into the same non-sequitur.
No, I don’t expect them to ban anyone from the government. And, no, I don’t think it would be wise to do it: verifying the account does not mean they are supporting it, it just means they are making sure that whatever crap ICE is saying can not go around without accountability.
If you don’t want to see their shitty posts, now you can simply filter it out. And thanks to verification, you can share your filters to others. That’s how decentralized systems work. Bluesky does not control who I get to see. ICE or any other institution can not buy its way into manufacturing propaganda. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than any of the existing alternatives.
No, I don’t expect them to ban anyone from the government.
So, you would be OK with a newspaper accepting ads and publishing an opinion column from Gestapo or SS? They were official government organizations after all.
And, no, I don’t think it would be wise to do it: verifying the account does not mean they are supporting it, it just means they are making sure that whatever crap ICE is saying can not go around without accountability.
You are once again presenting a false dichotomy. The choice is not only between “verify” and “not verify”, there is also the option to “ban”. Banning ICE would not let them post Nazi propaganda on their platform at all.
That’s how decentralized systems work. Bluesky does not control who I get to see.
Bluesky is de-facto centralized, they operate the only full-network indexer, they get to control what accounts can post to all frontends
They are hosting the ICE account on their own server and domain (bsky.social), and make it available through their own frontend (bsky.app). They definitely can control that, even if there were other indexers available
There is no excuse for bluesky to be hosting nazis. They have the choice, they are making that choice, fuck em.
ICE or any other institution can not buy its way into manufacturing propaganda.
They literally can. Except in this case they didn’t even have to pay, the corporate overlords of bluesky will let them post propaganda for free.
So, you would be OK with a newspaper accepting ads
What I am “OK with” has no impact whatsoever in “what actually gets to happen”. I rather not waste my energy on the things that I can not control.
Banning ICE would not let them post Nazi propaganda
It would. They would just do it from unverified accounts. Worse still, they would be able to post it and completely deny it if confronted about it.
the corporate overlords of bluesky will let them post propaganda for free.
Spammers also get to send millions of messages every day for “free”, but we mostly ignore it because we are able to filter them out. Sure, it would be great to completely get rid of spam and the phishing industry… but there is no way to completely get rid of them that does not involve increasing the surveillance aparattus and given more power to a centralized enforcer, so if I have to choose between spammers and corporate-controlled communicatioins, I will take the spammers any day.
What I am “OK with” has no impact whatsoever in “what actually gets to happen”. I rather not waste my energy on the things that I can not control.
You are in control of which social media you use, and even more so in control about which companies you choose to support or defend. You are currently spending your energy defending a company that is hosting a de-facto nazi account on their servers.
Let me rephrase the question. If a newspaper you enjoy reading started publishing a column from Gestapo, what would you do? Would you boycott and complain? Would you just complain and keep buying it? Or would you keep buying it and defend their actions by “well I can just skip that page with the nazi propaganda on it”?
It would. They would just do it from unverified accounts.
Well, yeah, but that would take effort in creating&advertising new accounts. Why make their nazi jobs easier?
Worse still, they would be able to post it and completely deny it if confronted about it.
There is literally nothing stopping them from doing it now. Having a verified account does not impede their ability to create fake unverified accounts in any way.
Spammers also get to send millions of messages every day for “free”, but we mostly ignore it because we are able to filter them out. Sure, it would be great to completely get rid of spam and the phishing industry… but there is no way to completely get rid of them that does not involve increasing the surveillance aparattus and given more power to a centralized enforcer, so if I have to choose between spammers and corporate-controlled communicatioins, I will take the spammers any day.
I would agree with this (except bluesky is also corporate-controlled). There is no way to completely cut out spam, including nazi spam.
But in this case someone from Bluesky looked at this account which self-identifies as a nazi organization, verified that it belongs to a nazi organization, and hasn’t banned it. It is clearly different.
You are currently spending your energy defending a company
I’m not defending anyone. I am just looking at a stated claim (Bluesky is as bad as Twitter because they verified ICE) and evaluating if it has merits. I don’t think it does.
If a newspaper you enjoy reading
The “newspaper I enjoy reading” is the WWW. The reason that I don’t buy newspapers is because I want to keep the power to curate the information that I receive. As long as I am reasonably in control of the information that I can access, I see no point in complaining about it.
If you want to make a parallel to Reddit: despite it being 99% filled with crap that I don’t care about, I could use it just fine and ignore all the drama. But when they decided to change the terms of the API and they were trying to force the specific channel to use to access it, then I immediately “stopped enjoying it” and went on to work on a solution to be back in control.
I’m not defending anyone. I am just looking at a stated claim (Bluesky is as bad as Twitter because they verified ICE) and evaluating if it has merits.
I don’t think that’s the claim, at least that’s not the way I’m reading it.
Bluesky is knowingly hosting nazis. The verification here just displays the mens rea: rather than them just not noticing the account, they know about it and still haven’t banned it.
I don’t think Bluesky is as bad as Twitter right now, neither is the OP. However, what we recognize is that this is the quintessential beginning of a Nazi bar, which means it will eventually become as bad as Twitter.
As long as I am reasonably in control of the information that I can access, I see no point in complaining about it.
I think there is a significant problem in platforming nazis. It gives this vile ideology a voice and a means to spread. Especially given the state of media literacy and critical thinking in the West, a lot of people don’t know how to control which information they see, and makes them susceptible to this manipulation. Fascism is rising through social media misinfo right now, as we discuss this, so it is very important to complain about it as loud as possible.
Do you expect bsky to ban ICE? They already have a job posting to join the Gestapo in their profile, is that not enough?
Someone at bsky verification team looked at this, and instead of flagging the account to be reviewed and removed, they pressed the “verify” button. If you give them the benefit of doubt, this was a mistake from someone on the verification team, but realistically speaking a corporate platform turning into a Nazi bar is quite natural nowadays.
I don’t know how else to say it: you keep falling into the same non-sequitur.
No, I don’t expect them to ban anyone from the government. And, no, I don’t think it would be wise to do it: verifying the account does not mean they are supporting it, it just means they are making sure that whatever crap ICE is saying can not go around without accountability.
If you don’t want to see their shitty posts, now you can simply filter it out. And thanks to verification, you can share your filters to others. That’s how decentralized systems work. Bluesky does not control who I get to see. ICE or any other institution can not buy its way into manufacturing propaganda. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than any of the existing alternatives.
So, you would be OK with a newspaper accepting ads and publishing an opinion column from Gestapo or SS? They were official government organizations after all.
You are once again presenting a false dichotomy. The choice is not only between “verify” and “not verify”, there is also the option to “ban”. Banning ICE would not let them post Nazi propaganda on their platform at all.
There is no excuse for bluesky to be hosting nazis. They have the choice, they are making that choice, fuck em.
They literally can. Except in this case they didn’t even have to pay, the corporate overlords of bluesky will let them post propaganda for free.
What I am “OK with” has no impact whatsoever in “what actually gets to happen”. I rather not waste my energy on the things that I can not control.
It would. They would just do it from unverified accounts. Worse still, they would be able to post it and completely deny it if confronted about it.
Spammers also get to send millions of messages every day for “free”, but we mostly ignore it because we are able to filter them out. Sure, it would be great to completely get rid of spam and the phishing industry… but there is no way to completely get rid of them that does not involve increasing the surveillance aparattus and given more power to a centralized enforcer, so if I have to choose between spammers and corporate-controlled communicatioins, I will take the spammers any day.
You are in control of which social media you use, and even more so in control about which companies you choose to support or defend. You are currently spending your energy defending a company that is hosting a de-facto nazi account on their servers.
Let me rephrase the question. If a newspaper you enjoy reading started publishing a column from Gestapo, what would you do? Would you boycott and complain? Would you just complain and keep buying it? Or would you keep buying it and defend their actions by “well I can just skip that page with the nazi propaganda on it”?
Well, yeah, but that would take effort in creating&advertising new accounts. Why make their nazi jobs easier?
There is literally nothing stopping them from doing it now. Having a verified account does not impede their ability to create fake unverified accounts in any way.
I would agree with this (except bluesky is also corporate-controlled). There is no way to completely cut out spam, including nazi spam.
But in this case someone from Bluesky looked at this account which self-identifies as a nazi organization, verified that it belongs to a nazi organization, and hasn’t banned it. It is clearly different.
I don’t use or support Bluesky.
I’m not defending anyone. I am just looking at a stated claim (Bluesky is as bad as Twitter because they verified ICE) and evaluating if it has merits. I don’t think it does.
The “newspaper I enjoy reading” is the WWW. The reason that I don’t buy newspapers is because I want to keep the power to curate the information that I receive. As long as I am reasonably in control of the information that I can access, I see no point in complaining about it.
If you want to make a parallel to Reddit: despite it being 99% filled with crap that I don’t care about, I could use it just fine and ignore all the drama. But when they decided to change the terms of the API and they were trying to force the specific channel to use to access it, then I immediately “stopped enjoying it” and went on to work on a solution to be back in control.
I don’t think that’s the claim, at least that’s not the way I’m reading it.
Bluesky is knowingly hosting nazis. The verification here just displays the mens rea: rather than them just not noticing the account, they know about it and still haven’t banned it.
I don’t think Bluesky is as bad as Twitter right now, neither is the OP. However, what we recognize is that this is the quintessential beginning of a Nazi bar, which means it will eventually become as bad as Twitter.
I think there is a significant problem in platforming nazis. It gives this vile ideology a voice and a means to spread. Especially given the state of media literacy and critical thinking in the West, a lot of people don’t know how to control which information they see, and makes them susceptible to this manipulation. Fascism is rising through social media misinfo right now, as we discuss this, so it is very important to complain about it as loud as possible.