As an early 90’s millennial, I’ve never noticed a “gen z stare” as described in news articles like a “blank face that shows lack of social skill or ability to think”. The only times I’ve witnessed it happen and seen the older person accuse them of “gen z stare” is when the older person says something off hand or dumb but isn’t self aware enough to realize they’re being weird. Hell, I’ve given people a blank face countless times because I was taught it was better to say nothing at all sometimes. Especially when it came to talking to older people at work.
I remember when I was 16, some middle aged guy at work accused me of having no personality. In reality, I kept all conversations short as possible with him (like almost everyone in the store) because they were casually racist and misogynistic.
Really strange how many attribute their anecdotes to a wide ranging phenomenon afflicting only one specific generation.
I’ve always interpreted the stare as a consequence of growing up where cameras (phones) are everywhere and nothing ever disappears from the internet. And as a result people who grew up under that are ALWAYS cognizant of this. So they express nothing because it could make for embarrassing video or photos. Being extra or try-hard are also considered bad. Everything is tamped down, socially. They are seriously just repressed, internalized.
Yes, there is a feeling of the world is now a panopticon and anything you do or say will be used against you and taken out of context.
It’s collective PTSD. 1997. Keeping up with things feels like a marathon. It’s hard smile rn. It doesn’t feel appropriate rn. You Stonewall until the other person indicates how they feel, but sometimes you get two blank faces going back and forth. In general, we live in interesting times and I don’t want to het punched in the face because I smiled about Trump being a bitch.
I wish that term would not get thrown around so much like when a fat chick complaining she was delivered the wrong pizza, now she has PTSD. What you’re describing is not PTSD.
You missed the collective memo! Everything that happens that is mildly upsetting is now traumatic and requires years of therapy to cope with… and yes, the barista who mispronounced your name at Starbucks did it DELIBERATELY to mess with you because they secretly HATE you… and it’s not at all your projection…
PTSD is from more than just war and sex abuse.
https://www.charliehealth.com/post/gen-zs-mental-health-crisis-collective-trauma
I’m well aware of what PTSD is, and that article is about depression. I dont give a shit about this supposed “collective trauma”. Edit- most of the people described in the article would be ethically diagnosed as having depression and/or potentially Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD). I have a BSc in Psychology and used to treat victims of serious crimes where the offfender(s) was convicted and received federal sentences at minimum 4 years +.
K. Well me and multiple of my friends are diagnosed with cptsd because of the insanity that is our world.
no. it’s just another thing to make people upset at each other. ignore what they say.
No, hacks keep writing generation war articles because they’re stupid and lazy.
Even the “stare” is just a hack’s memories of general teenager movie tropes. I bet right now if I said “80’s bored teenage stares at character saying something stupid and weird” you know exactly what I’m talking about.
mainstrem media likes attributing negative things about younger generations and to try and keep this stupid generational war alive. i wouldn’t bother. talk to the kids and you will see they are fine.
Step 1: Get rid of these generational names.
Europe doesn’t have them. The USA only has them because whoever comes up with one gets invited to talk about what defines that generation, and with that a lot of money.
feels like dividing to conquer doesn’t it?
Don’t know about mainland Europe but, in the UK, generational names are definitely a thing. Stupid newspaper headlines about Millennials, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, are very common, unfortunately.
Agree about the idea of getting rid of them, judge people on what they do (the content of their character, if you will) rather than what age they are.
Do you know what the stupid thing about this is? Those generations are not the same between countries. Babyboomer for example are defined as people born between 1946 and 1964 in the USA. In Germany it’s 1955 till 1969. There are also people around talking about “Boomer” in asian countries, which had totally different experiences and demographics. The whole concept of those “generations” is trash and people thinking that there is a specific stare for everyone who was born in a certain timeframe is also an idiot
In Italy they are not really a thing. The media uses it sometimes but most people really don’t care
Every generation is like this at that age. The hallmark of my generation, GenX, was apathy. Not that I care. Whatever. Never mind.
Hello. Hello. Hello. How low?
I have absolutely seen this and experienced this. Although, I don’t think it’s much different from any teenager or young person working shitty jobs in any decade I’ve lived or seen in media. The silent teen staring you down at fast food is timeless.
alienation of labor
That’s not genz thing. That’s the hot potato method of where you drop the potato on the ground and don’t play the games the sociopath wants to play.
This is a more widely used strategy now that mental therapy is more openly discussed. And the best way to win the game with a narcissist/sociopath is to not play their game. in the older days this was done in form of cutting contact. Don’t take their calls. Leave. Don’t interact.
Deadpan stare is a form of this as visual blocking.
Before the 80s so many people thought ‘I can change him!’ And after the 80s there were so many books about living loving a narcissist and how you can’t change him.
Now we just have the deadpan stare. And so many hack comedians from yesterday liken it to ‘cancel culture’ or not having a sense of humour cuz they can’t deal with being irrelevant because of their unchecked hatred landing flat
I guess it depends on the context.
Work in a customer service job? People are going to talk to you. They may ask you questions. Those questions may even be something you consider silly. But guess what? Thats part of working customer service! Youre paid a wage to…wait for it…serve customers. Part of serving customers is occasionally having to answer questions that you may or may not think are stupid.
But its not a big deal. There is no one on this planet that hasn’t asked a stupid question before. Even the person that works at the counter at Starbucks and is annoyed that Im asking a question and thinks its appropriate to stand there and blink at me rather than acknowledge I exist in some human way, ill bet any amount of money they asked a stupid assed question at some point in their lives and the person they asked almost definitely didnt just sit there and stare at them until they felt bad for asking it.
I guess my point is, the problem as I see it arent the people that play that game in their day to day, its the people that play that game when their whole job is to assist the public in some way. The context is different. You can do whatever you want in your personal life, but dont take a customer service job if you dont want to interact with customers. Youre paid a wage to answer those questions and assist customers whether you think theyre stupid or annoying or not. But dont worry, nobody forces anyone to work anywhere in this country anyway, so if that is truly too much to bear, there are plenty of other jobs that arent customer service out there, go do one of those.
Signed, a 40-something that has gotten the blink in response to questions like “is this where I pay?” when standing at the register at a diner and being blankly stared at for 5 minutes, or “excuse me, where are the restrooms located?” when Ive got my 3 year old in tow and they’re doing the potty dance, about to soil themselves. If someone here thinks those are the appropriate sorts of questions to just stand there like a statue and not respond, please help me understand how, because I cant figure it out.
Yeah I’m noticing people in this thread claiming it is some social injustice to be asking people at their job to respond to simple people talk. Not even complicated questions or like, aggressive customer issues. Just a simple “hey is this where I order?” and they are spiraling.
Fucking weird.
Honestly, and this is digging pretty deep here, I think it boils down to entitlement.
I work in IT, and as one of the more senior people at my firm, am often coaching the paid interns we have coming through in spring and fall. I’ve been doing this for over a decade now, and I’ve noticed some trends among these early 20-somethings fresh out of college that was not the case previously. Namely, the employee/employer relationship.
As an easy example, here’s a specific argument I have had to have virtually every single time one of the new interns starts: “I know we’re supposed to be here at 8am but does it really matter? So what if Im a few minutes late?”
Well, once in a while, sure, shit happens. We’re actually pretty loosey goosey with that stuff and don’t watch people’s punches. We don’t go looking for people the minute they’re supposed to be at work, we give people 15-20 minutes to settle in and all that shit, which in my mind is pretty fuckin reasonable. But even that is seemingly “too micromanage-y” for the interns lately, and I’ve found myself having to explain how being on time to work is important, not just for our firm, but like, for society to function. Im explaining to legal adults that they need to be to work on time and its an argument. And the thing is, after a point, here’s the answer they’re going to get: “Why does it matter? Because if you don’t do what you agreed to do, your internship is going to be terminated and you will not be receiving an offer from our firm.” And somehow that is unreasonable to them. They literally think they can come in to a new job and do whatever the fuck they want, breeze in 30 minutes late every day, and we’re the assholes for taking issue with that.
But that’s just one easy, universally recognized example. There are dozens more, every single day. “Aw man, you’re telling me I have to do this by hand?” Yes, that’s what Im telling you. “But that’s going to take ages!” I know, believe me, I’ve done this same task myself many times. “I don’t want to do this.” Yeah, I know, but it needs to be done, and everyone else is working on other tasks, so unfortunately you’re going to have to do it. “But I don’t want to, I think this is dumb.” Well, you’re entitled to thinking whatever you want, but Im telling you, I need you to do this, and I know you don’t have anything else going on because Im the one that gives you your daily task list every morning, so go ahead and get started and let me know if you have any questions. “But I still don’t want to do this!” I heard you, but I don’t care whether you want to do it or not, you’re being paid a wage in exchange for your labor and we need your labor on this specific task. “So I don’t get a say in it?” Well, NO, you don’t…what on earth would make you think you think that?
And that’s the question I never get an answer to. Where they think that they have a say in whether or not they perform a legal task being posed to them by their employer. They’re free to quit and get a different job, Im not stopping them. Honestly, I’d prefer if they’d just quit now then me have to dance this stupid dance every other day, explaining to literal adults that the whole reason they’re paid a wage is to do these sorts of things. Like what did they think, they were going to come in here and change the business to suit their whims? How fucking childish.
What you’re complaining about seems to just be what every generation has done on their first job. This isn’t a genz thing. This is how most people act on their first job until they learn how schedules work not just for them but for everyone to sync up. Their first time stepping out side of their school or family home.
Cuz that’s also part of your job as a boss who trains staff to succeed: you have to also interact with these interns and teach them this. You do have to answer these stupid questions. Someone did it for you on your first job, and if you think they didnt: think again. Every generation has the entitled phase of when they first step out of the house and face the world who don’t kiss their asses like their parents did.
I just don’t get this generational ageism fight. It’s a stupid argument that gets us no where. It’s just about patting the self on the back at someone else’s expense.
No generation escaped going through this asshole phase. Personally if the new generation does come up with a better way to set schedules, there’s nothing wrong with room to improve. We can all benefit from improvement. Lots of places run on outdated, exclusive rules that can definitely afford improvement.
you’re being paid a wage in exchange for your labor and we need your labor on this specific task. “So I don’t get a say in it?” Well, NO, you don’t…what on earth would make you think you think that?
Yes, they do. They can just go home, or walk around the block, or work on something else. No matter what your employer tells them, they aren’t a slave at any point in time.
Will there be consequences? Absolutely. They might get fired. They might get sued. If the task is sufficiently important the State might consider them not doing the task criminal negligence.
This isn’t entitlement, it’s choice and freedom, and perhaps having different priorities than the person assigning tasks. Everyone, including GenZ: Do you, and if you can try to spread joy and reduce suffering.
Do remember tho, someone has to keep the infrastructure working, and it’s often not clear where in joy in that lies.
FWIW, I agree with you. But to be clear, I didn’t list that choice because I felt it was obvious. They absolutely can walk out and not ever come back, they have that autonomy of course.
Where I make the distinction is where the line is drawn as concerns continuing your employment. If you will not perform the tasks expected of you, you will no longer be paid, your badge will no longer open the front doors, and you will not be working here. If that’s the decision you need to make for yourself, I fully support and there are no hard feelings on my side of the desk. I can and have had those sorts of frank discussions before, and it comes with my role in the company as it stands today. Don’t want to work a job with a set schedule? No problemo man, I get it, but that’s not how it is here, so best of luck to you in the future!
But as long as the wage is being drawn, and I’m asking for things that are part of the job expectations that are listed on the documentation they signed when they started working for us, that is beyond the point of negotiation. I’m not an asshole, and I have never in my life assigned a task that I have not personally done myself when I was in their shoes. The tools and technological gains have made their role easier by orders of magnitude then where it even was when I was the intern all those years ago. But when my mentor was assigning my tasks, never in a million years would I have thought that I had the right to dictate to my boss whether or not I would do that task if I wanted to continue being an employee of the firm. I felt it was pretty obvious and clear to anyone that has worked in their lives that it do be that way…I dont get to tell my boss what Im doing if I want my boss to continue employing me.
That is the disconnect Im referring to…the fact that people are taking jobs thinking that they get to dictate what the job entails, even after being told what the job entails, even after signing documentation saying they agree to what the job entails. Where does that come from? And why are people so surprised that refusing to do what a job entails means that you no longer can reasonably expect to continue that job?
That is the disconnect Im referring to…the fact that people are taking jobs thinking that they get to dictate what the job entails, even after being told what the job entails, even after signing documentation saying they agree to what the job entails. Where does that come from?
I don’t know, but I saw something similar in my father (RIP). He would agree to something, then get some benefits, then later attempt to “renegotiate”. That sort of behavior isn’t something “GenZ”. Some people just want to squeeze water our of rocks, even if it is deleterious to their relationships.
Similarly, I’ve certainly had employers that, despite my job duties clearly not covering the task would ask and expect me to perform other tasks “for the good of the company”. It’s fairly common these days for job offers to include “and other duties as assigned” because employers want to have all the power, and I’m fine with workers (of any generation) just refusing to comply.
It does sound like the employee was being unreasonable and maybe should be dismissed, but that doesn’t get the task done either, so maybe the “do it, you have no say” approach isn’t any better. And, I have no idea how I’d handle it. I kinda don’t like delegating stuff anyway, so if I thought the task was important I’d do it myself unless someone happily volunteered. But, I know that might not “scale” the way it needs to make the business work.
Oh, believe me, I know that’s not just a GenZ thing. I’ve worked with people that were in their 60s that would pull the same sort of shit. I think it’s human nature to react negatively to being asked to perform an annoying task, and there are many shades of gray in whether the task itself is justifiable or not. Where I differ though is that in my own experience, so long as a request was reasonable, even if the request itself sucked, I didn’t refuse to do the thing, or at least, knew that if I refused to do the thing that it might have negative consequences on my continued employment.
I’m not a slave driver…believe me, I am very selective with delegating and like I said, I have literally never once in my life, not ever, asked someone to do something that I haven’t done myself and know intimately what it entails. I’ll delegate the task and even help them along by giving them guidance on the most efficient way to complete it…way more than I ever got, that’s for damn sure; where Im at now had a real sink or swim mentality before I came along and was able to shape things more constructively when it came to developing our new hires and that’s reflected in the changes in our turnover over those years.
But anyway, getting back to the point, it’s not just a GenZ thing, but it is something I’ve noticed at a much higher percentage in our younger interns and entry level employees then the years pre-Covid. Everyone is different, but that weird sense that they can have their cake and eat it, too…they can just opt out of doing what’s expected of them and still somehow expect to not have any consequences for doing that…that’s the thing that I see more and more as time goes on among the fresh hires where Im at. The surprisedpikachu when they’re getting talked to about the fact that they’ve rolled in a minimum of 20 minutes late every day this week with no explanation and that’s not okay. Being accused of being unreasonable for talking to them about it in the first place, like I’m out of line with the expectation. That’s the attitude that bothers me, and it’s more common then I’ve ever seen it before.
That’s not genz thing. That’s the hot potato method of where you drop the potato on the ground and don’t play the games the sociopath wants to play.
Yup, I have heard the same complaints about younger generations since the 1990s about Gen X, which are now passed on to us millenials. I’ve always heard the same old versus young fighting since I was a child.
Simple answer: no
Why do you think that? :)
😐
It’s not the sort of thing where we have clear statistics on. If we had statistics on the “Gen Z stare” then those would be of limited use due to the lack of historical data which could give us contextualised information in conjunction with contemporary statistics.
There seem to be only anecdotes. The above post marks my first hearing of such a phenomenon and I do therefore think not much of it. I would stipulate that any discussion around the “Gen Z stare” has more in common with folklore retold for nice musings than information which interfaces with the world as it is lived.
Well I appreciate you sharing the timeline of your learning about the subject matter, it’s not relevant and wouldn’t fall within contemporary statistics.
Young people in customer facing positions seem fairly unemotive in general, I’m not necessarily sure it’s a new trend. The positions these young people are in are generally minimum wage (or effectively minimum wage). They aren’t really being paid enough to smile lol, or don’t really have much to smile about.
I tend to avoid all eye contact with folks in public so I’m probably not really the best to answer it. It’s sort of something I’ve noticed, but I’m really not convinced it’s new.
That said, I do get that there’s a lot of folks who missed out on a lot of socialization opportunities during the pandemic. Whether that’s enough to lead to an epidemic of young people doing a “stare” I’m not sure.
Every young generation gets clowned on. As a millennial I remember us getting it. So it’s hard to really say if this is something real or just more “youth bad” rhetoric.
a lot of people try as much as possible not to acknowledge the humanity of service workers, its completely normal for those workers to become numb to the endless stream of jackasses. Even if the next guy coming up does acknowledge them and treat them like a human, its hard to fault any perceived carelessness. Its also not limited to young people, any supermarket I go to has older peole working and you will encounter the same phenomenon. Its the alienation of labor under capitalism.
i worked in customer service positions as a teen and 20 something. it is not hard to just say hello to people when they are in your store. it’s a basic requirement of the job.
yes, it is novel for them not to do this. and no it’s not a majority, but it’s a markedly new experience to go into a store and see a 22 year old who basically ignores customers who re actively seeking their attention/help.
I have no clue what people are going on about it’s timeless or whatever, i never dealt with it my entire life until very recently. like i have been going ot the same coffee shop for 20 years, and only in the past year have I had a barista be spaced out when i come up to the counter to order, and it’s always these young baristas, it’s not the older ones who ever do this.
and also we have issues at my job with gen z employees that we have never had ever before. i have been working there 10 years, and only in the past 2 years have we ever had to fire anyone for lack of performance or violated basic company policies… and we have had to five 6 people in the past year or so, all new hires, because they back the most basic social and work skills that we have never ever had an issue with before.
like we literally give them the rules of employment, they actively violated them and get caught, and act all confused like they didn’t understand what they did wrong. so we then terminate them and they are SHOCKED. they seem to totally lack the concept that actions have consequences and if you can’t show up to work and follow basic common sense instructions, you don’t get employeed.
and like a lot of the posters here they are massively entitled and think they are owed 100K jobs at 22 for entry level jobs and skills.
I’m going to take a shot in the dark and assume it’s been about 20 years since you have been a young 20-something? I’m not Gen Z, I’m old enough to remember a pre-911 America. I get on to my girlfriend all the time for this same thing. Yes it is their job working in customer service to make your experience pleasant, but it’s also hard to take pride in the work that you do when your employer offers no health benefits, pays you poverty wages, and the cost of everything is constantly on the rise.
The material conditions in which they are growing up are very different than what were present when we were. This kids/young adults do not know what it is like to live in a world without the constant threat of terror or an endless stream of information that seeks to use our anxiety and outrage to keep us engaged.
Have some empathy and try to put yourself in their shoes. I’m well established in my career at this point, and I can’t imagine how hard it must be for someone fresh out of college now. If I had that much student loan debt and couldn’t find a job using that degree; I’d be mentally checked out making someone’s coffee too. I’d be thinking about how the hell I’m going to pay back those loans.
No, 10 years. I have dealt with all the crap you are whining about. I worked for ‘poverty wages’ until I was in my mid 30s. And yet I never felt I was in poverty… weird. Maybe because I didn’t expect to travel, to party, and to own the latest electronic gadgets… because yeah any wage is a poverty wage when you spend more than you make, and you don’t save and invest.
It’s hard to take pride in your work when you’re whiny, entitled, and refuse to take responsibility for yourself, yes. I worked customer service jobs since i was 14, they are ridiculously easy and bare minimum effort. They are not hard back-breaking work, nor are they cognitively demanding. Acting like it’s some heroic difficult job to sling coffee or sell clothes is just sad and disrespectful to people who actually have difficult jobs.
I am so sick of being told to have ‘empathy’ for entitled lazy people who think they are owed a six figure job for doing the bare minimum. I’m glad you think life is so ‘hard’ for them. I don’t. I am not very far removed and I interact with them regularly and a lot of them are just lazy entitled nitwits, a lot of them just depended on the bank of mom and dad. I was help paying family bills at the age of 16 and many of them are still in their 20s and 30s, financially dependent on their parents. It’s pathetic. Nobody owes them anything. They have to go otu and actually make an effort… and funnily enoguh… the gen z kids I know who are making an effort at life… are succeeding and happy. They get jobs, promotions and move up the ladder. They save rather than spend recklessly and they invest and they… become financaily stable and independent?
Nobody is going to become financially successful or independent when they take their 40-50K a year job and blow 10-20K of it on ubereats, traveling, and boozing. But boy do the people who do do that love to whine about hard and unfair and awful life is.
These people we’ve been screwing over for our own benefit won’t smile for us!
Me, an aging Xennial: “The hwat?”
It’s basically the same concept the “Jim face” from The Office. You do something stupid, they stare deadpan at you.
As an elder millenial I might have some insight. You know how when we were kids people used to get all up in their feelings when you weren’t smiling. That’s this. “Gen Z stare”, is just “Resting Bitch Face” or “You look prettier when you smile darlin’” repackaged and rebranded. They’re mad that the young people in general and women in particular aren’t running around with goofy forced smiles on their faces to make them feel special.
