cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/63262827
Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law
Israel as a state was created to wash away the sins of holocaust, but we can’t atone for one genocide with another genocide.
The state must be abolished, the law must be decided by the indigenous people before the current settlers can be allowed back in as immigrants, if they clear the requirements set by the people.
There is no being against the genocide without being against the state of israel, because the genocide did not start today, it started the moment palestinians were displaced in the nakba.
Exercise caution. Being against genocide is not the same as being against the existence of Israel, just because some individuals have both beliefs.
Some news / reporting / social media outlets will try.
No country or political project has a “right to exist”
Yeah. The people who live in Israel (and Palestine) have a right to exist. The country doesn’t have a right to exist.
In the past this used to be more obvious. When a country lost a war of aggression, they were forced to cede territory at the end of the war, or sometimes they were just wiped out and another country took over that territory.
All the events in Berlin are what people think about when they think about Germany after WWII. But, there’s also Königsberg. After WWII Königsberg became Kaliningrad. It’s a part of Russia that isn’t connected to the rest of Russia by land, only by the Baltic Sea.
IMO, a country engaging in genocide means that country should lose territory. Germany shows that there’s hope that a country can be reborn even after its leaders commit genocide. But, maybe it also shows that that country deserves to cede territory to some of the countries they harmed.
We shouldn’t really look towards the “might is right” geopolitics of the past for how things should be anymore. After WW2 there has been the ideal of a rules based international order under which the people have a right of self-determination and the country has sovereignty which together pretty much means recognizing that the state of Israel does have a right to exist.
Does that preclude Palestine’s right to exist though? Palestinian peoples’ sovereignty?
Because currently Israel appears to be doing everything in its power to prevent that.
If they can determine another nation doesn’t have the right to exist, using Might Is Right, why should the rest of the world accept their right to exist?
it certainly doesn’t and attempts to resolve this have been happening under the international framework where both things are recognized for many decades now… If we had a system that was able to enforce the ideas uniformly instead of the current deeply flawed one where great powers still hold veto over any issue they want it could be that Israel would be prevented from doing that.
This law will criminalise expressing beliefs of ultra-orthodox Jews in particular and of anti-Zionists generally. German fascists at it again.
I used to be ambivalent to Israel but for fuck sake they just seem like a collection of the most awful people on the planet. Regardless of their history i feel like they deserve to have their entire country blockaded and obliterated to dust.
I mean to some extent you should at least recognize that they’ve been heavily propagandized to to be the people that they are.
Not that they should be excused, but they’re not inherently the most piece of shit country on the planet.
Just because we are against a genocide does not mean we hate Israel.
I mean, we can too 🤷🏻
The government to be clear. Or maybe certain individuals. Not the ethnicity on a whole.
Israeli is not an ethnicity.
think you mean race, they are an ethnicity
Just like Canadian and American are not an ethnicity. Canadians and Americans have ethnic origins, wherever they are from or are the descendants of.
Israel is stolen land by settlers from locals.
Not really a single race, though, it’s not strictly hereditary. People can become Jewish by conversion.
I’m sorry, it isn’t? I’m not sure I understand. Can you please explain this?
You should be able to hate anything you want as long as you don’t act against it I think
That’s a dislike. I’m referring to actual hatred.
Nazis backing nazis
Your right to exist is not your right to attack your neighbors however. That’s a rather important detail we would do well to remember. There’s a saying about the right to extend my fist ending at the bridge of your nose.
