I did some analysis of the modlog and found this:
Ok, bigger instances ban more often. Not surprising, because they have more communities and more users and more trouble. But hang on, dbzer0 isn’t a very big instance. What happens if we do a ratio of bans vs number of users?
Ok, so lemmy.ml, dbzer0 and pawb are issue an outsized amount of bans for the number of users they have… But surely the number of communities the instance hosts is going to mean they have to ban more? Bans are used to moderate communities, not just to shield their user-base from the outside. Let’s look at the number of bans per community hosted:
Seems like dbzer0 really loves to ban. Even more than the marxists and the furries! What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners?
Raw-ish numbers and calculations are in this spreadsheet if anyone wants to make their own charts.
We have dedicated anti ai trolls who go and get banned from dozen of genai comms, make alts then go and get banned again. We have serial harassers who make dozen of accounts and go and spew bigotry. Your methodology is so flawed, it’s laughable. Did you even check the age of the accounts being banned?The amount of comments? The amount of downvotes? Cross-reference with other instance bans? Check if their own instance banned them? Did you have any amount of rigor before throwing out your half-assed conclusions?
There’s lies, damn lies, and statistics…
lmao at these attempts at manufacturing consent. L.w desperate to push for a narrative that would just let them defederate already
The answer is to all is no. Why bother doing research when you can make shit up and doctor photos!
Can’t wait until Rimu claims Db0 had to be defed for not tolerating racism and bigotry with slander.
This is skewed by the mods who just ban people from their dozens of AI slop communities for a couple downvotes for stuff that came through the All feed.
You don’t see it unless you go to db0 or look for it.
You can also block communities if you don’t like them.
Or you use New or Scaled and All, which a lot more people do than the mods think.
Average age of accounts being banned, grouped by instance:
SELECT i.domain AS instance, AVG(EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (NOW() - u.created)) / (60*60*24)) AS avg_account_age_days FROM mod_log ml INNER JOIN "user" u ON ml.target_user_id = u.id INNER JOIN instance i ON u.instance_id = i.id WHERE ml.action = 'ban_user' AND i.domain IN ('lemmy.ml', 'lemmy.dbzer0.com', 'lemmy.world', 'piefed.social', 'lemmy.blahaj.zone', 'pawb.social', 'lemmy.ca', 'sh.itjust.works', 'lemmy.zip', 'feddit.org', 'programming.dev', 'discuss.tchncs.de', 'sopuli.xyz', 'lemmy.today', 'slrpnk.net', 'beehaw.org', 'jlai.lu') GROUP BY i.domain ORDER BY avg_account_age_days DESC;lemmy.dbzer0.com is towards the young side but not really out of the ordinary. It’s the instances like lemmy.today, lemmy.zip and piefed.social that are unusual.
Does this take into account the account age when they got banned? You can clearly see that older instances are on the higher level. Mate really, this shit ain’t easy, and jumping to publish with flawed methodology like this just comes off as a hit piece
Average number of downvotes (lower attitude is a higher ratio of downvotes to upvotes. Always 1 on instances with no downvotes) when banned:
dbzer0 has 0.68 which is the same as lemmy.world or lemmy.ca.
It’s also at least partially explained by the fact we frequently take ban actions for reports of transphobia, or of zionism, for example. Whereas that only sometimes happens on the bigger instances who tend to draw their lines in different places, to put it delicately.
“But it’s anti free speech to let people spew hate speech! You’re just ban happy!”
They forget we are federated with hexbear too. That probably accounts for quite a few of them! lmao
They forget about it until it becomes convenient for them.
Why don’t you just not federate with authoritarians? Why tolerate authoritarianism when you’re supposed to be anarchists?
You used to be a member there, making multiple alt accounts after each would eventually get banned didn’t you DroneRights/Dragon Rider?
Also iirc you recently said you would like to work alongside fascists, did you not?
I’m not either of those people and I don’t want to work with fascists.
@eugenevdebs the freedom of association includes the freedom to not associate.
It doesn’t give one person license to make that decision for thousands of users, in a paternalistic way. Ask the damn users. Otherwise it’s nothing but admins treating their instances like personal fiefdoms.
Indeed!
If it’s about transphobia, why does blahaj have so many fewer bans than you? They’re not zionists either.
3 bannable type of comments was mentioned and you only focused on one. blahaj do not have political communities and it is not pro AI to have bots downvoting AI
What even is an “anti ai troll”? Is Big John Connor paying people to go to your instance and downvote AI posts? Or is it just a made up buzzword you use to legitimise banning people for downvoting stuff they don’t like?
Na, there is one dude who runs a bunch of AI comms and if you ever downvote a post they will ban you from 5 or 6 communities you have never interacted with.
They did a post a whole ago bragging about how to make a successful AI community he bans everyone who downvotes them, and even went and banned people from their communities who downvotes that post in an entirely unrelated community.
mystic mushroom is not a dude! Ze uses ze/zir pronouns
I figured they meant Jet, who had an automated script that would ban from a bunch of communities if you down voted a single post in any of them and didn’t comment.
Ze and draconicNEO are also victims of trolls making large numbers of alt accounts impersonating them or harassing them that need to get banned as well
as devil’s advocate i don’t think account karma should be a factor. downvotes would only be an extension of how exclusionary the instance is. dbzer0’s moderation is quite democratic, after all
Yeah, It’s a weak point anyway. While the graphs aren’t detailed research, there’s also no reason to believe dbzer0’s perspective on the same network includes 8 times as many new users as LW for some reason. Or all the users in their communities have 8x worse karma for some external reasons. So we probably need further research.
@db0 @rimu
"What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners? "
How is asking a question “telling lies”? He was explicitly being open ended about it and didn’t draw any actual conclusions. So you treating it as an attack seems like more of a you thing?
It’s a loaded question. It already has made assumptions about them being “prolific banners”, without investigating what the bans actually are. It’s like asking “what about fr0g@mstdn.social makes them downvote everything they see?”, not that I know that you are, does that make sense?
@mathemachristian
Not really? If it were factually true that I downvote everything (as it seems factually true that dbzero bans a lot) it’s reasonable to ask what’s going on there.
I do agree the post is slightly loaded, but the initial “Which instances have the most ban-happy moderators?” is probably the better demonstration of that (and slightly defused by ending with a imo more reasonable open-ended question)
It doesn’t seem to be a neutral observation and curious inquiry when viewed from the perspective that lemmy.world threatened to defederate dbzer0 just last week https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/a4b437ae-f00b-454e-bfd2-fcee5dd152e7.webp
Like if I called for your banning last week and now I’m posting stats about your voting behavior painting a certain light that you are much more likely to downvote than others. And then just kind of go, “whats up with that?”