The comments here on this Lemmy post can serve as a perfect demonstration for the reason behind men turning right-wing. Any comment trying to point out some specific aspect of life where men are experiencing more hardships is immediately shut off and getting told these experiences and concerns are invalid.
There is a limit to how much “fuck you” one can hear before going “well, fuck you too”.
No one has mentioned anything yet what the right offers to help men as a solution.
They only said going right as a ‘fuck you too’ threat towards the left.
You have a choice. Be the change or make threats.
If you got a flat tire you can pull over to the side of the road and either:
1: repair it
or
2: punch a hole into the rest of the tires and bitterly yell at all the other cars for having working tires.
If the second was your choice, you can’t pretend for a moment you got involved legitimately to fix a tire. It is a choice. It is your choice. Not everyone else. Not the left. Yours.
Sure is weird how none of my boys have issues dating and maintaining relationships.
It’s almost like these right-wing “children” were raised poorly, and by the same people that scream and cry when they hear the phrase “it takes a village”.
His point is shit. If they are on the right wing they naturally dont find women who are interested in them. The only one to blame is themselves but since right wingers are incapable of this they blame everyone else.
If this was some one off case yes, I would agree with you. But since the sample is big enough that it affects statistical data for a very broad segment of the population, I think he might have a point. Or let’s keep the head in the sand, and then cry about why Trump is going to win every next election.
You also provided only empirical evidence (mine are fine therefore it’s everyone else fault). Not the best kind of proof.
Here is a video that highlights some of the problems. It’s two years old and still relevant: https://youtu.be/rQv8VuLpKN4
There’s an art to diplomacy, and sometimes it involves omitting truths or carefully framing it, even when dealing with awful people, and compromising or postponing grand strategic goals for short-term gains.
I feel like many young men are being alienated by people pissed off with the status quo that fail at or refuse to engage with them diplomatically. I get it, I don’t want to compromise or negotiate on basic human rights and dignity either. I don’t want to wait for things to get better. I don’t want to coddle the sensitive pride of chauvinistic dickheads.
But reactionary grift thrives on the (negative) reaction to being told your way of life, your habits, your norms are bad and wrong, and particularly to the (exaggerated) impression that you are bad and wrong for reasons beyond you control (like being born with a dick) or that you are irrelevant.
We need to find a way to communicate issues more diplomatically and include these men in the conversation and solution rather than making them “the other”.
And we also need to reign in the hardcore misandrists who genuinely do want to turn this into us vs. them.
we know how do it. bernie sanders, aoc, and mandani show us the way.
the issue is their ‘way’ is wholesome and isn’t based on self-righteous rage and self-importance, so people don’t like it and it freaks them out. the issue is so many people use politics as nothing more than a drug to fuel their self righteous superiority complex, where they are ‘right’ and everyone else is ‘wrong’ based purely on the beliefs, not any objective reality or facts.
Thanks for putting it in words, people from the left at core want to help but they attack anyone who is in close proximity to them and appear to be the part of the statues queue, like " if not privileged why privileged shaped"
The whole situation becomes like:
“hi, I have problems with my job…”
“But you are a man, you are working for a multi-billion dollar company founded by men, who are part of oppression and putting the world in a dangerous place…”
“But I am a server at McDonald…”
“Is anything factually wrong with what I said… No right, see you are part of the problem”
The above example is over simplification but that’s how many of the conversations have felt when I tried to explain my position.
the issue is people need an enemy. the left pretends it doesn’t ‘other’ people because that’s against it’s values… but they do. they just other what is perceived as the dominant sex/ethnicity because that’s punching up, but the issue is they lump in everyone when the demo they should target is really quite small. they go on and on on about incels, but incels are not a significant population anymore tham femcels or radicals are.
and they should get courting the average office worker and mcdonalds worker. they used to. bernie and mandani do, but for some reason they have brainwashed themselves that the average white guy is the problem with society… turning him into some evil boogeyman that must be eliminated/converted and if not eternally punished.
and while they go on and on about incels being evil they just genrealied to all men and of course… alienate men. nobody wants to hear how awful and shitty they are when they have done nothing awful and shitty. men are guilty by default in the eyes of the left, very similar to how the right wing seeks women as guilty by default.
Honestly, I am not sure how we can deal with that “enemy” thing, As of now, distancing from the online communities is one of the few measures one can take. But even on that I am not sure how much it works.
I thought of sharing my experience but people here were already shouting “you are lying or exaggerating” to anybody who shared their experience opposing the narrative, So I didn’t bother, I reach out to some communities when I feel down or hopeless but don’t expect any support,I know I am not entitled to help but gaslighting that your suffering doesn’t matter or are not real sometime hurts, I’m just trying to find ways to deal with them alone.
i shared my experiences. nothing but insults and abuse were thrown at me.
if anything bad happens to a man its’ because we deserve it for not being leftist enough, apparently. oh and even if you are leftist, and you are critical of leftistm or sympathic to non-leftists… well then you deserve to suffer and be in pain until you are ‘reeducated’ to the proper way of thinking where you are a true believer and never critical of any leftist talking point or belief…2
it’s just all masked misandry where their rage at the social elites is projected onto working class and younger people, as if men suddenyl voting democrat is going to radically change our society… it won’t.
oh and even if you are leftist, and you are critical of leftistm or sympathic to non-leftists… well then you deserve to suffer and be in pain.
I have experienced this one too, and it’s disheartening.
it’s just all masked misandry where their rage at the social elites is projected onto the working class and younger people.
I mean I kind of get it, social elites are so well protected and out of reach that angst people attack anybody who appears like them in their closest proximity.
Anyway chin up we still have much more individual control over life than we think, Socializing is hard even more in developed countries and I don’t know your background to suggest that, but try therapy or counseling if not financially troubled, try finding some sports or gym community too it helps, don’t be hopeless there are still some people who are helpful and not hostile with misdirect anger. cheers!
I mean I kind of get it, social elites are so well protected and out of reach that angst people attack anybody who appears like them in their closest proximity.
yeah man. that is the real rub. much easier to attack the average guy working to get buy and blame him for child-rape or something, than go after the social elites who actively do rape children.
it’s so self-defeating. and why the left is so bad at coherent organizing and shit at social issues. the left does much better when it focuses on economics, but economics does morally outrage people as much as does rooting out the ‘wrong’ people from their political tent.
socializing is easy as long as you avoid leftist idiots who spend all their time being hateful bigots who are shouting about how it’s the right a that is hateful bigots.
socializing is easy as long as you avoid leftist idiots who spend all their time being hateful bigots who are shouting about how it’s the right a that is hateful bigots.
I would not encourage that charged approach, I know some are very dismissive but yet that attitude will have net negative output.
it’s basically ‘if men don’t believe in left wing causes then fuck them’ and then they are like ‘why don’t men support us’.
the irony is totally lost on these douchebags who think anyone who doesn’t believe what they believe is wrong/bad/evil/deserves to suffer. then some rant about how pathetic anyone who isn’t as enlightened as they are deserves to suffer. it’s simple pure arrogance and cruelty.
The comments here on this Lemmy post can serve as a perfect demonstration for the reason behind men turning right-wing. Any comment trying to point out some specific aspect of life where men are experiencing more hardships is immediately shut off and getting told these experiences and concerns are invalid.
There is a limit to how much “fuck you” one can hear before going “well, fuck you too”.
No one has mentioned anything yet what the right offers to help men as a solution. They only said going right as a ‘fuck you too’ threat towards the left.
You have a choice. Be the change or make threats.
If you got a flat tire you can pull over to the side of the road and either:
1: repair it
or
2: punch a hole into the rest of the tires and bitterly yell at all the other cars for having working tires.
If the second was your choice, you can’t pretend for a moment you got involved legitimately to fix a tire. It is a choice. It is your choice. Not everyone else. Not the left. Yours.
deleted by creator
Sure is weird how none of my boys have issues dating and maintaining relationships.
It’s almost like these right-wing “children” were raised poorly, and by the same people that scream and cry when they hear the phrase “it takes a village”.
Thank you for proving his point
His point is shit. If they are on the right wing they naturally dont find women who are interested in them. The only one to blame is themselves but since right wingers are incapable of this they blame everyone else.
If this was some one off case yes, I would agree with you. But since the sample is big enough that it affects statistical data for a very broad segment of the population, I think he might have a point. Or let’s keep the head in the sand, and then cry about why Trump is going to win every next election.
You also provided only empirical evidence (mine are fine therefore it’s everyone else fault). Not the best kind of proof.
Here is a video that highlights some of the problems. It’s two years old and still relevant: https://youtu.be/rQv8VuLpKN4
There’s an art to diplomacy, and sometimes it involves omitting truths or carefully framing it, even when dealing with awful people, and compromising or postponing grand strategic goals for short-term gains.
I feel like many young men are being alienated by people pissed off with the status quo that fail at or refuse to engage with them diplomatically. I get it, I don’t want to compromise or negotiate on basic human rights and dignity either. I don’t want to wait for things to get better. I don’t want to coddle the sensitive pride of chauvinistic dickheads.
But reactionary grift thrives on the (negative) reaction to being told your way of life, your habits, your norms are bad and wrong, and particularly to the (exaggerated) impression that you are bad and wrong for reasons beyond you control (like being born with a dick) or that you are irrelevant.
We need to find a way to communicate issues more diplomatically and include these men in the conversation and solution rather than making them “the other”.
And we also need to reign in the hardcore misandrists who genuinely do want to turn this into us vs. them.
we know how do it. bernie sanders, aoc, and mandani show us the way.
the issue is their ‘way’ is wholesome and isn’t based on self-righteous rage and self-importance, so people don’t like it and it freaks them out. the issue is so many people use politics as nothing more than a drug to fuel their self righteous superiority complex, where they are ‘right’ and everyone else is ‘wrong’ based purely on the beliefs, not any objective reality or facts.
No they are very few, we need more of them on community levels, and before you jump “be one then” I would have surely tried if I had resources.
Thanks for putting it in words, people from the left at core want to help but they attack anyone who is in close proximity to them and appear to be the part of the statues queue, like " if not privileged why privileged shaped"
The whole situation becomes like:
“hi, I have problems with my job…”
“But you are a man, you are working for a multi-billion dollar company founded by men, who are part of oppression and putting the world in a dangerous place…”
“But I am a server at McDonald…”
“Is anything factually wrong with what I said… No right, see you are part of the problem”
The above example is over simplification but that’s how many of the conversations have felt when I tried to explain my position.
the issue is people need an enemy. the left pretends it doesn’t ‘other’ people because that’s against it’s values… but they do. they just other what is perceived as the dominant sex/ethnicity because that’s punching up, but the issue is they lump in everyone when the demo they should target is really quite small. they go on and on on about incels, but incels are not a significant population anymore tham femcels or radicals are.
and they should get courting the average office worker and mcdonalds worker. they used to. bernie and mandani do, but for some reason they have brainwashed themselves that the average white guy is the problem with society… turning him into some evil boogeyman that must be eliminated/converted and if not eternally punished.
and while they go on and on about incels being evil they just genrealied to all men and of course… alienate men. nobody wants to hear how awful and shitty they are when they have done nothing awful and shitty. men are guilty by default in the eyes of the left, very similar to how the right wing seeks women as guilty by default.
Honestly, I am not sure how we can deal with that “enemy” thing, As of now, distancing from the online communities is one of the few measures one can take. But even on that I am not sure how much it works.
I thought of sharing my experience but people here were already shouting “you are lying or exaggerating” to anybody who shared their experience opposing the narrative, So I didn’t bother, I reach out to some communities when I feel down or hopeless but don’t expect any support,I know I am not entitled to help but gaslighting that your suffering doesn’t matter or are not real sometime hurts, I’m just trying to find ways to deal with them alone.
i shared my experiences. nothing but insults and abuse were thrown at me.
if anything bad happens to a man its’ because we deserve it for not being leftist enough, apparently. oh and even if you are leftist, and you are critical of leftistm or sympathic to non-leftists… well then you deserve to suffer and be in pain until you are ‘reeducated’ to the proper way of thinking where you are a true believer and never critical of any leftist talking point or belief…2
it’s just all masked misandry where their rage at the social elites is projected onto working class and younger people, as if men suddenyl voting democrat is going to radically change our society… it won’t.
I have experienced this one too, and it’s disheartening.
I mean I kind of get it, social elites are so well protected and out of reach that angst people attack anybody who appears like them in their closest proximity.
Anyway chin up we still have much more individual control over life than we think, Socializing is hard even more in developed countries and I don’t know your background to suggest that, but try therapy or counseling if not financially troubled, try finding some sports or gym community too it helps, don’t be hopeless there are still some people who are helpful and not hostile with misdirect anger. cheers!
yeah man. that is the real rub. much easier to attack the average guy working to get buy and blame him for child-rape or something, than go after the social elites who actively do rape children.
it’s so self-defeating. and why the left is so bad at coherent organizing and shit at social issues. the left does much better when it focuses on economics, but economics does morally outrage people as much as does rooting out the ‘wrong’ people from their political tent.
socializing is easy as long as you avoid leftist idiots who spend all their time being hateful bigots who are shouting about how it’s the right a that is hateful bigots.
One even became the president.
I would not encourage that charged approach, I know some are very dismissive but yet that attitude will have net negative output.
it’s basically ‘if men don’t believe in left wing causes then fuck them’ and then they are like ‘why don’t men support us’.
the irony is totally lost on these douchebags who think anyone who doesn’t believe what they believe is wrong/bad/evil/deserves to suffer. then some rant about how pathetic anyone who isn’t as enlightened as they are deserves to suffer. it’s simple pure arrogance and cruelty.