For Context: I’m Chinese American, and I do not feel “ashamed” for my heritage, neither do I feel “ashamed” for being a US Citizen.
The CCP is not my fault. I do not feel any shame of saying I’m from China.
Similarly, the trump admin is not my fault, I voted Harris. I do not feel any shame for being American.
So what is the thought process of people feeling shame/guilt?
We were raised with “pride,” not necessarily racially or ethnocentric, but a broader sense that transcended such boundaries. I grew up in the 80s-90s in the midwest, and we were taught America was a “melting pot” of cultures, ideas, and races, and that we should look forward to a time when whites are not the majority because the lines will fall away, the average color will be brown as we all mix over the next generations, giving us less reason to fight. And we should look forward to it, because that’s been our story so far - broken, impoverished immigrants came here looking for opportunity, and found it through hard work and smart thinking, and then became a part of our shared tapestry. We were taught to be proud of this, that we were stewards of this tradition in the best, most advanced country in the world.
And now, well. The basest instincts of people have been brought to the surface and America now stands as an openly white nationalist, isolationist, fascist-tinged autocracy where the ideals I grew up with seem long antiquated.
So yeah hard not to feel ashamed of what’s happened to our shared identity in just a few decades.
You don’t have to be at fault to be ashamed.
Well this last election really broke me from thinking of myself as an American. I just happen to live here.
Because the truth is our democracy is managed by oligarch propaganda. And our votes mean very little outside of local elections.
A vote for Trump and a vote for Harris were both going to continue the harms of the MIC and the fossil fuel industry. Yes, Trump is an accelerant. And I voted not to add gasoline.
But the fire was going to burn one way or the other.
Anyway, I think folks that feel ashamed still believe that their voice matters. Which is by design of the political and business class.
With all of the attempts to dismantle voting booths and artificially mess with the results every freaking election, why even bother voting anymore?
It’s like we tell the naysayers about voting as to why voting at all in America is pointless. But they still cling to some hope that they’re heard. Well guess what? When a candidate can still win by Electoral College despite the popular majority, that alone tells you how little your little voices mean. When an election can be won by stupid points.
I don’t have pride in my government or its actions.
It was actively causing a lot of harm for most of its existence and is now turbo charging its ability to enshittify the world.
The LEAST I can do is make it clear we’re not all in support of this shit.
Love the country and people though. Lots of cool forests to roam and lots of people who don’t suck.
Anyone who has been embarrassed by a family member knows.
I haven’t felt very patriotic or proud of my country in over 25 years, since I began to slowly understand politics and how things worked within my country. I feel that after everything I’ve read, everything I’ve heard about, everything I verified myself by researching and everything everyone has gone through in it with the bads. You can say my control stick has been snapped off and I’m permanently unpatriotic and ashamed to represent my country, knowing the damage that has been done internally as a country and externally everywhere else in the world.
I know it’s not my fault, I just do what I can, I pay my taxes knowing it’s being pissed away, I work jobs I didn’t like doing to feel like I’m contributing despite it not being ultimately worth it because I am helping sustain the motion of this unworthy country. I have voted Sanders, Sanders, Harris in my voting record. And still, the assholes won in the end. But then I feel like, that shit doesn’t matter because our track record as a country has shown that the system is in favor of said assholes if they’re cunning enough to take advantage of them and that’s what we’ve witnessed many times.
All the while knowing that half of the population in this country, is dead set in taking the rest of us down with them in every negative decision made. While still trying to tell us it is our fault.
I grew up in Indonesia, my sister is from Java, my brother is from Singapore. I’m natively from California, and I’m a huge white boy. I am ashamed that the country of the free, the country of the brave who had bounteous arms to welcome the downtrodden and abused of the world is no longer that place. Instead it’s the land of the secret police, tbe land of a pedophile traitor president who can’t stand any kind of criticism because he’s a fucking coward who dodged military service.
I’ve been watching the sopranos lately and the answer is because I’m secretly in the mafia and the Italians invented everything
Non parliamo con nessuno al di fuori della famiglia della nostra cosa
Because other people will blame you regardless, so it makes you wish you could avoid even telling them
I feel deeply embarrassed about being from the US. It’s like hanging out with a group of friends out of necessity, later realizing they were all assholes, and trying to come to terms with the fact you spent so many years with them. I live outside the US now and I’m even more embarrassed to be from there. Every time there’s some culture shock my takeaway is either “wow how did I normalize this broken aspect of the US” or “I wish I was from somewhere that didn’t do those things to that person’s country”.
I also feel embarrassed and guilty over getting out of the US. I worked in tech and now I’m living off tech savings to start a life outside the US. I left my friends behind many of them are struggling financially, I left my community behind many of which are actively homeless, I chose to leave. Sure I’m leaving in part because my trans ass is on the chopping block but I see a lot of trans people fight harder instead of flee. I fought for so many years though and I couldn’t keep doing it so I left. The US did this to my community, made me confront choices I never wanted to make, I’m disgusted by having paid taxes to the war machine, and I justify working in tech as a way out of there but really I feel guilty over choosing to buy into that side of the US too so I could secure personal safety.
Living in the USA myself, I feel shame at how I normalized and rationalized the horrible aspects of this country. I’d already been a minimalist and was anti-consumerism from before I was an adult; but I had downplayed the severity of our systemic violence until it hit me personally. Above all I wish I was doing more to fight this system, like the people you described.
For as long as I am alive I will stay in the USA. I’m not going to give up on holding out here, as miserable as I’ve felt this last year. I’d like to believe something I do may someday inspire others who are braver and have more resources to do something more concrete.
guilty over getting out of the US
Please don’t feel guilty for leaving somewhere you don’t like. That is your right. Stay safe, friend.
Don’t feel guilty for seeing the signs and getting out whilst you still can. Millions of people throughout history haven’t been as fortunate.
Once Trump and Project 2025 is done with immigrants you can bet your arse the pendulum will swing onto LGBQT people in earnest
Not the pendulum. The gunfire.
My family settled here in 1630. I don’t feel shame about being american, I feel dread at the resurrgence of barbaric population control as opposed to compassionate capitalism and universal basic income for all. My entire childhood and participation in civics was a temporary era not the foundation of a beautiful future.
I look at my children and want to apologize to them for what they’ll endure after my demise. What a way to wake up…
It’s not shame so much as deep embarrassment for the current state of our country. We look like fucking morons on the world stage. Thankfully we will move on from this stage in our history, but the stain may remain for decades to come.
We look like fucking morons on the world stage.
The only sort of solace to this, is that many other countries are clearly following the same path, so its not something inherent to just the US. Idiots are everywhere, and they vote.
Everyone is pointing to the US, but the same initial precursors are happening under their own nose.
While agreeing for the most part, it’s painfully clear as someone in the EU how politics in the US empower far right rethorics everywhere else. While politicians in my country have condemned the actions of the US, the political landscape has shifted dramatically.
Everyone is pointing at the US because their politics trickles down into ours, not the other way around.
Canada has voted against the populist right for the last decade. And each time the Conservative party chooses some one more right wing. And each time they get a bit closer to winning.
Trump galvanized people last time, scared them away from the right. This time he seems to be inspiring the right wing politicians, and people live it.
I don’t know if we can hold out much longer.
i hate when people shit on the US but don’t acknowledge any sort of solutions to put in their own country to avoid this situation
The easiest solutions to the US problem are already solved in most other western countries. That’s why the US is the first (and at this time, the only one) that turned fascist.
Legal guns are uniquely a US problem. Having a system that only allows 2 political parties is a uniquely US problem. Limitless (in the billions!) political donations is a uniquely US problem. Relying on the stock market for retirement is a uniquely US problem.
I’m not saying that the rest of the western countries turning fascist is impossible, but it’s much harder. Most fascists are contained to their fascist political party. So until there aren’t enough fascist individuals, they can be mostly ignored. Of course, once they are enough fascists, the fascist party will inevitably win, and there’s nothing that can stop them at that point.
False equivalency.
Oh look a Canadian that can’t see their own descent into the far right fascist rabbit hole on the horizon. Somehow even watching the US, you seem to still be headed that direction as if it couldn’t possibly happen in Canada. Because… reasons?
How is it a false equivalency? It’s the same exact people astroturfing the movements in those places too. It’s literally the same phenomenon
Because it is their fault.
I’m from the US but left to live outside it. I will NEVER FUCKING EVER call myself an American, much less a proud American. I’ll call myself a NYer because I owe most of who I am to that state/city, but I am ashamed about the country I grew up in and absolutely do not want to be associated with it. The US government has only ever caused me and my people harm.
You have nuanced take on things. That’s a rarity here on lemmy. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a few of the lemmunists show up to tell you how your take on China is entirely wrong.
And speaking of nuance- the overwhelming lack of it here is pretty much the answer to your question.
Strangely, people seem to hate when blanket definitions are used to describe them, while also seeming to love using them as a weapon against others when under the Manufactured Outrage spell.
For instance, I too voted for Harris, and I’ve been called a gEnOciDe suPpOrTeR, a bOoTLiCkEr, and. bLuEmAga™. Just for voting against a fascist.
Looking for a nuanced take here is like looking for it in a gradeschool classroom. It’s best not to take any of it seriously.
If someone calls you bLuE mAgA then that probably just means you are smarter than them.
For instance, I too voted for Harris, and I’ve been called a gEnOciDe suPpOrTeR, a bOoTLiCkEr, and. bLuEmAga™. Just for voting against a fascist.
The hatred between left leaning Lemmy users over the last election is crazy to me. Instead of focusing on getting rid of the current fascist regime together, so many just dogpile on anyone based on whether they voted for Harris. I feel like every other political post has a flame war that starts with a comment blaming the news on anyone and everyone on the left who didn’t vote Harris or criticized dems during the campaign.
There are those of us with a bit of nuance though. I was and still am disgusted and disappointed with the Dem’s positions and empathize with those who sat out in 2024 but I voted Dems them over the party looking to fast track fascism and white nationalism. I regularly get flamed for suggesting we move on from blaming each other and focus on getting rid of the fascists here and now.
I think for some people the only way they can think of to help is attempting to bully someone over the internet, and it ends up applying to whoever happens to be around that disagrees with them, even though that makes zero sense as a strategy.
Yeah I get why people have talked shit to you. It’s flat out not fuckign acceptable to have withheld a vote from harris to make some statement which will never be heard. What they did was see Hitler rising and said their little tantrum was more important than trying to stop him. But here you are trying to justify that when no one asked.
Thanks for the demonstration.
jIlL sTeIn 2028!!!1
