Normally I always forget why I still keep thinking about switching back to Windows. Today was a great reminder. Linux can be frustrating. This post is somewhat about awareness and partly about me learning about other peoples experiences. I updated my CachyOS as usual. There were some system packages upgraded and I got the notification to reboot. Figuring I’d do it later I left after some time and the PC went to sleep. Upon returning the screen stayed black. Even upon forced reboot. Remembering I was using Limine with BTRFS snapshots I tried multiple previous snapshots but to no avail. I remember this happened before. So now I face another reinstall… This and having to dive into the deep end of terminal commands to get drivers, programs or games working can be quite frustrating. I understand why people are turned off and go back to Windows…
Onto NixOS for me. A big dive but it seems very stable which might be just what i need. I feel like the philosophy of NixOS combined with a graphical store to install programs and what not seems like a great solution.
What would your ultimate distro be like?
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I see people recommending Debian but you also said you enjoy tinkering, so I’d recommend SpiralLinux. It’s basically Debian but it uses BTRFS so you can roll back to a previous snapshot if you break something. I don’t think Spiral has updated to Trixie yet so you’d need to manually upgrade but that’s not too big a hassle if you do it immediately.
I think NixOS is a superb choice if you have the time and energy to invest in it. I’m currently using Guix System (a GNU fork of Nix) and I’m very very happy with it. Previously I’ve been on openSUSE Tumbleweed because I thought the most important thing for me was btrfs with an easy snapshot system. But then, one day, when I was writing ansible playbooks to configure my OS I realized that what I care most about is declarative configurations. Now I’ve completely stopped using ansible for my laptop/desktop, and just rely upon native Guix configuration. I love it.
I do still run MicroOS on all of my servers because it “just works” and I think transactional systems are great for servers. Recently, however, I’ve been thinking about trying out NixOS/Guix System as my server OS of choice, but we’ll see how that goes.
If you’re willing to put in the time, I think you’ll love NixOS.
Edit: Nix/Guix are also transactional.
This is exactly what I think every time someone recommends CachyOS or Manjaro to new users. Arch is great, but it expects the user to know how to deal with things, it expects user to read the news and it pulls the rug periodically because it expects you to be able to figure things out.
In your case in particular I don’t think it was Cachy on its own, otherwise we would have seen other users affected, but still, it’s likely that the Arch philosophy got you because of something you changed without even remembering and now with the update your config is no longer backwards compatible.
NixOS is great, but it’s a very different paradigm, you will not be able to install things from the graphical interface as you’re expected to declare your system. And it can never be compatible with a graphical installation as that would beat the whole purpose of reproductible builds.
I think what you’re looking for might be something like Bazzite, where the core system is immutable but you get user space freedom. But personally, if 0 downtime is your goal NixOS is better, as you can rollback to previous generations of your system if something goes wrong, but to get that you have to pay the price of declaring your whole system which might be too steep to pay for some.
Ubuntu was the first Linux distro I tried, and I’ve never tried anything else, across three laptops. I’ve never experienced problems like the ones you describe.
I know its frustrating when this happens. But there is something called arch-chroot, its a program to fix your messesd up os. New users don’t know about this, but as you keep using Linux, you get familiar to these programs. It takes few mins to fix broken system using arch-chroot. I hopw your system won’t break anymore.
cachyos is not a system for newbies, or absolute stability. nix isn’t it either.
try fedora, debian,
ubuntu, mint or something newbie friendly if you want a newbie friendly experience.I use fedora, debian and mint because I have several computers for different usecases. I wouldn’t recommend Fedora for this, all the others are gold in my experience, but newbies really should go through Mint first.
i find that bazzite can be a great beginner distro, as it has some sane quality of life defaults baked in over fedora, but fedora is not bad if you can get used to default dockless gnome for example.
I’d argue that CachyOS is more noon friendly than arch. As would EndeavourOS be. People fail to see my point that sometimes Linux breaks very easily and I’m not blaming Cachy or Arch specifically but a simple update and sleep should not result in a black screen on any OS IMO. It’s just off putting… If this would happen on windows I’d definitely complain too. And there have been plenty of instances where microslop added OS breaking things…
I’d argue that CachyOS is more noon friendly than arch.
I’d say no, Arch forces you to learn to use a terminal, chroot and other things so you can fix your system if it breaks. CachyOS expects you to know this but doesn’t force you to. It’s like saying jumping off an airplane is more noob friendly because of the static line.
People fail to see my point that sometimes Linux breaks very easily and I’m not blaming Cachy or Arch specifically but a simple update and sleep should not result in a black screen on any OS IMO.
Yes, that’s correct, I have never ever in my 20 years of running Linux and administering Linux laboratories seen a system break because of a sleep during an update. It’s very likely that that was just a coincidence and the system would have broken regardless of the sleep. I don’t have all of the info but my guess would be either Nvidia driver related (as I see recent news mention it on both Arch and Cachy) or (more likely) you changed a system config and the update kept your version which is now not compatible (it happens, it’s part of the reason why Arch is called unstable, on stable distros that can only happen during version updates, and you get promoted about each of them, but Arch expects you to check pacnew/pacsave files after an update)
It’s you who’s missing the point that the other person made, your experience is not something that matches other Linux users. CachyOS is not noob friendly, these sort of thing should never happen in Mint or other more noob friendly, but Cachy expects you to be aware of certain things because it is a bleeding edge rolling release distro. People think Arch is difficult because of the installation process, but that’s not it, that’s very straightforward, maintain the system is what’s difficult.
you are arguing from a place of stubbornness. cachy arch and nix are not supposed to be newbie friendly distros. linux doesn’t break easily at all, but only if you accept you need the right tool for that job.
it’s like that youtuber that keeps insisting on using pop os with a beta desktop when he knows its not windows and breaks, and then complains it’s not windows and breaks.
i work with linux and i’ve been updating hundreds of debian, ubuntu and assorted turnkey distros over decades without issue, and you could too.
simple update and sleep should not result in a black screen on any OS IMO
That’s the thing. Different distros handle it in different ways. Some have the option to do offline updates so it will not actually install the update until after reboot so there is minimal risk of something interfering. That’s why often the recommendation is to try and find one that is more stable if that is what you value more.
What would your ultimate distro be like?
The one that fits one’s needs the best. Given your frustration with unstable systems, I’d say the best ones would be those that take longer to make major updates, like Debian, Mint and Slackware, as then issues aren’t introduced as frequently, and older ones are better known and easier to fix or even preemptively circumvent.
So I made the jump to Linux a few weeks ago - I used to use it a lot in the 90s but I’ve forgotten pretty much everything so I listened to the general advice and went with mint. I’d recommended it. So far it’s been great, had anticipated issues with my drivers but nothing I couldn’t sort out in the GUI. There are distro options out there that will give you fewer issues - but if you like problem solving and wanted to challenge yourself, enjoy!
Use something stable and boring like LinuxMint. No issues in 7 years.
I’ve been loving Mint; the one thing I missed was WoW Classic but I finally found out how to get it to run under Steam and it’s been relatively great! <3
I think the fault here is at Cachy OS for shipping experimental and advanced stuff as if it is ready for most users.
When I installed it recently on an old machine I purposefully stayed away from these fancy options and chose EXT4 + Grub. I admit having some bad memories about casually using btrfs also made my choice easy. No, most users don’t want to have to baby sit their file system.
Anyway, what even is the point of a system restore functionality if it hasn’t been thoroughly battle tested? They should have been behind an “ADVANCED/EXPERIMENTAL” disclaimer or something until it is very hard to break (including brtrfs not borking itself) and actually rescues users from a bad time rather than creating more problems.
CachyOS is built off Arch, a rolling-release distro. RR distros are notoriously unstable, and by design. It does exactly what it says on the tin.
I encountered this problem myself, and it was very stupid and annoying, but I had reason to re-install anyways. That’s the cost of bleeding-edge packages. If you’re unaware/unprepared for it, best not install anything arch-based. That’s why most servers are Debian-based.
They are unstable from a software compatibility perspective where every updates has a worrying chance of breaking compatibility with old “stale” software (software not managed/distributed by the distro itself), but that does not necessarily means unstable from a system stability perspective. If there was some kind of “system stability” scale for distros i would judge archlinux somewhere in the middle. And, with the nature of how linux development is you might actually get better system stability due to it having fresher software that better supports your hardware. That’s the main reason to try and be a the bleeding edge of desktop linux, sometimes you only get a few shallow cuts and stuff actually functions better.
Any serious breakage such as an unbootable or unusable system is supposedly very rare and only affects a minor portion of the users, with any change going through a long process that hopefully catches it before any harm is done. I do realize the irony of building a system restore functionality for precisely this case and me pushing against it. Again, I just think it should be made nearly bulletproof before it’s pushed into the users.
I’ve been using Arch for nearly 20 years and noted that things are a hell of a lot more stable than it used to be. It’s also hard to excuse it since it has grown and matured so much, it’s not a niche distro nobody knows anymore, even SteamOS is now based on it (though the immutability gives it a huge edge and essentially eliminates the aforementioned issue without relying on the, well meaning, but probably flawed system restore thingy).
Anyway, in my judgement, CachyOS being a downstream distro with a lot less manpower behind it should be quite a bit more careful when introducing such fundamental changes. I can’t say how bad it is affecting their user, it’s up to then to know that and if so hopefully change the defaults or at least better educate the user of the experimental nature of it.
Going from CachyOS to NixOS because you bricked something is wild. You very clearly have no clue what you’re doing and I regret to inform you that your choice of distro will not make an impact. But it isn’t all bad — you could stop panicking and acting like you know what you’re doing and learn about the technology you’re trying to use.
Or keep switching distros forever. I’m sure that will work too.
Love the condescending tone! Definitely helps people figuring out Linux. Very helpful reply too. Please keep adding to the community.
You clearly missed my point and instead of adding a helpful reply you decided to get on your high horse…
I think he has 2 ideas you are missing. The first is that this is a problem with the operative system, not the kernel, and to go with other operative system with ideology similar to the previous will likely make the same, regardless of kernel, so an operative system tailor for those whose do not want to configure is what should be aim for, like Linux Mint Debian Edition, which is my personal recommendation and preference when I do want something to work now but not to figure it out and configure in my Void ISO that like to make every now an then just when big updates arrives so I can simply install the image… The second is just referring to the posibility that by statistic you will end trying Mint soon or later.
This will sound like heresy to some, but get away from the bleeding edge. You probably don’t need the absolute latest version of every little thing. It can feel cool knowing you know how to fix a borked install but actually having to do so sucks. Dump the hype and get to something stable for your daily driver. If you want to experiment, do it on another drive/machine. Building a custom rocketship is cool, but you should probably build it without breaking the truck you use to go get parts.
This is a good point. Some distros are on the other end of the spectrum of being too slow (it seems) to update but you might be onto something.
I’m going to call this another vote for Debian
I was gonna say the same thing.
For most beginners who just want their PC to work, the obvious choice should be Mint for older hardware, and Universal Blue’s Fedora-based images (Bluefin or Aurora depending on the preferred desktop).
Of course, since OP mentioned NixOS that is an option as well. But it should be the stable version, and it is not beginner friendly like the other two.
I use Garuda, and it hasn’t borked for me in years. I update it about once a week.
Been on Garuda since September and it’s fantastic. Surprised it doesnt get more love around here.
The one criticism that I felt had some truth to it is that it looks like it was designed by a 14-year-old boy. I think it appeals to my inner 14-year-old who wants neon icons and DRAGONS. But if Dr460nized is too garish for you and you want something more sophisticated, now there’s Mokka.
Agreed! And if you don’t like either setup, it’s trivial to customize it.
So first of all, you could likely still access your drives when you boot from a USB. Goes for any OS
secondly: if you play with fire, don’t complain about the blisters. And yo be clear, with fire I don’t mean Linux, with fire I mean specialty distro
You need to ask yourself what you want. If you want something shiny and cool that does certain security things that are awesome but not really that needed for the average Joe, then fine, go with whatever.
I on the other hand need a Linux distro that works, that I can trust. I have been using Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE UI) for over the last 20. There are bugs, like everywhere, but bugs like “this little widget doesn’t respond right”, not “oh my OS suicided again”
First of all U don’t need to reinstall anything switch to tty firstly and find out what wrong happened second u can boot in usual live cachyos iso chroot in ur main system and reinstall all packages of system it might help but better firsrly understand what caused this
