(I’m assuming US)
You can’t easily buy full auto M16s*, and bow hunting is very popular.
You can’t easily buy one. You need a tax stamp and that’s a bit of a process. But you can buy one.
Access to full auto weapons varies from state to state. For example, fully automatic weapons are prohibited in California except for law enforcment.
The eform system is really streamlined these days. Cost is the way bigger hurdle now.
I mean, purely anecdotal, but I had a close friend who had to do the process and it took over six months of waiting. Not difficult I guess, but it did take a long time…
When did it happen? I well know it used to take months and months, but in the last year or so 10 day turn arounds are the average for a transfer.
I’d still consider the high cost a bigger hurdle for full auto than even a few month wait time. What the wait times used to really be killer were cheaper items like SBRs.
Last year! Sounds like it’s changed since then.
Yeah I’ve heard (no confirmation- so take this as pure gossip) that somebody was starting to kick the ATF in the butt a bit for intentionally slow walking reviews, which could have potentially led to litigation they didn’t want.
Um…yes the US. I didn’t know bow hunting was very popular. I am in the deep south so it’s kind of like who has the biggest most badass gun is their dick size. But yes you can by those M16s in the US my brother got his for the marines.
yes you can by those M16s in the US my brother got his for the marines.
He bought for the marines?
I don’t want to be too definitive, but I think you might be mistaken about what he bought.
Buy the gun for the job you want, not the job you have.
He was in the Army and found it boring. He had to buy his gun back then out of his so called paycheck but you get paid back.
Uh huh. So he bought his M16 from the Army? May we see it?
I know a few people in the south who bow hunt, but I think they all also have guns. From what I can tell, it’s unusual about the same way someone having an antique car is unusual. Most people don’t and it’s a talking point, but not unheard of.
If big and badass is what you want just out Kentucky Ballistics 4 Bore playlist https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa7R2iFDUEvh3lSxf49NesrnEbTML9_jI
If they are getting a fully automatic weapon for hunting, they aren’t looking for more challenge.
Right. The point isn’t to challenge themselves. The point is to kill.
Edit: obviously this is not the sole reason people hunt. Talking specifically about those who feel the need to over equip.
Pretty sure it is the main reason. The ones that want to feed themselves through hunting could be planting crops instead. Or you know, use the money they sink in guns and ammo to buy food.
Most people buying full auto M16s (assuming this is a U.S. centric question) are doing so because those are collectors items. They cost upwards of $20k (edit: just checked and the cheapest one I can find is $31k, yeesh) and appreciate in value.
People buying non-NFA semiauto ARs do so for a multitude of reasons. If someone says it is for defense, then while the chance of using it as such is slim, if it does happen it is a lot more practical than using a bow and arrow.
For hunting, there are a lot of variables. For the most part intermediate cartridges aren’t ideal for hunting, and in a lot of places they are banned for that purpose (at least for deer which are the most commonly hunted animal). You’d legally be required to use a full power cartridge much of the time. Bow and arrow hunting of deer is not something most people can pull off and it would lead to a lot more wounded deer running away.
I do think it’s fairly common to use intermediate rounds on wild hogs, but at that point it’s more about culling masses of them much of the time.
Hogs also travel in large enough groups that semi-automatic is an incredibly valuable function. People love to joke about the feral hog line but if you’re a farmer whose cash crop is threatened by hogs it’s a very real problem, and they can destroy fast in large groups.
No one is saying that.
The AR platform (semi auto) is cheap and reliable.
Depends what school you’re trying to go to
Good luck buying a full auto, those cost more than cars and have so much red tape buying.
If you are talking about the off the store shelf civilian semi auto AR15, you can 100% hunt with it. I use mine for coyote hunting or 2/4 legged critter defense. 5.56 or 223 is a really great varmine round. Flat shooting, light recoil, super quiet with a can, cheap rifle and ammo.
Sure, it’s not as much as a challenge,but an AR15 cost the same price as a low end compound bow. Recurves are expensive. You also have to have a place to shoot and practice your bow, have the physical strength to actually shoot it.
Nothing wrong with hunting “modern” weapons. I used to bow hunt, but havent for 10 years due to basicly having to buy a whole new bow since the carbom fibre and string degrading naturally. AR15s are great (and safe) to hunt with and not a new concept.
Bow and arrow can be a lot less ethical kill, and going from the precision and power of a compound bow to a regular bow makes the problem a lot worse. The m16/ar15 shoots 5.56 which in some states isn’t even considerd powerful enough for deer and larger game to ethically kill them. With skileld shot placement it can but its not as quick a death as larger cartridges are for larger game.
Fully automatic weapons are illegal in my country, but bow hunting is common. So people don’t say anything about M16s but use bow and arrow for a challenging hunt
Difficulty Level 10,000 Poison Blow Darts
Does the M16 have a lot of stopping down power or range? Seems to me, these are important criteria for hunting.
For home protection I would want a pump action 12 gauge.
The AR-15 derivated guns in 5.56mm tend to be decently mechanically accurate (depending on the exactly setup and blahblahblah) and have a flat trajectory which makes them practically accurate.
The ability of 5.56mm to wound is velocity dependent. Within the range where the velocity is high enough (600 to 800 meters, again depending on specifics) they are quite damaging, at least to humans. 5.56mm was designed specifically with humans as targets in mind, and designed to kill with hit to the heart/lungs/head. It minimizes recoil to allow the maximum volume of aimed shots in the shortest time, to maximize the chance of hitting a vital.
For hunting something like deer, a lot of gun people have shown 5.56mm is capable of taking down a deer with a similar hit to the vitals, however many locations still regulate that 5.56mm is not legally allowed, so it’s sort of a moot point.
For home protection I would want a pump action 12 gauge.
Not my personal choice or recommendation, but I’ve had this conversation enough to know it is hard to change minds.
So I live in a place where owning a gun for home protection is not considered a rational thought and you’d be a weird fucker if you did (i.e. not US), so wondering what would be your choice/recommendation?
Personally, and this is from a non-gun owner but understand decision making in stressful situations, I’d have thought the recoil and skill needed in a tense situation would not be appropriate for a 12 gauge, unless you’re just using it to look threatening or as a melee weapon - and in which case, a bat might suffice. An ar15 would be a bit too large and unwieldy for home protection so I’d have suggested something simple, low recoil, easy to wield and use but with a bit of stopping power so maybe a Glock 0.4, Colt M1911 or something similar.
I dunno though as I’m not that knowledgeable about guns, especially for this purpose. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
An ar15 would be a bit too large and unwieldy for home protection so I’d have suggested something simple, low recoil, easy to wield
A pump action shotgun is often going to be longer and more unwieldy than an AR-15 with a collapsing stock and 16 inch barrel (the most common by far layout in U.S.). A Mossberg 500 is 3 inches longer than an AR-15 with a 16 inch barrel, as an example.
A shotgun has the opposite of low recoil. It is high recoil.
AR-15s are specifically designed to minimize recoil; they have very little. For follow-up shots with an AR-15 you simply need to pull the trigger again, for a pump action, you need to pump and if you’re stressed and not super familiar it might take a second or two to register that you need to do that.
AR-15s are also more “pointable” than shotguns, given that AR-15s have almost none of their weight up front whereas pump shotguns have a tube and all the ammo under the barrel.
In the US, you can go even shorter with an AR-15 pistol with no additional legal hurdles, which makes it even more compact and handy. You only lose out on velocity, which only matters at longer range.
While you can add optics and lights to shotguns, it is normally easier to do so with modern off-the-shelf ARs. A flashlight is (I suppose obviously) important to illuminate what’s in front of you to prevent shooting something or someone you don’t intend. Modern red dots commonly have shake awake functions, which means simply picking up the gun causes the red dot to turn on without you having to do anything.
Shotguns are not the cheat code to hitting targets as people think they are. I have seen people, under only the stress of a timer, miss steel plates with a shotgun.
A common, easy alternative to a 5.56mm is a 9mm carbine. This can be an AR rechambered for 9mm, or one of a variety of common 9mm carbines on the market. A lot of similar pros and cons to AR-15s.
In either 5.56mm or 9mm I’d recommend hollowpoints mainly to reduce over penetration of walls.
A silencer (and yes gun people- it is a silencer on your eform so I don’t want to hear whining about suppressors) only takes a little bit of paperwork in the U.S., and I’d recommend it. It protects hearing and reduces your own shock from muzzle blast, to help keep you from being distracted. It’s an extra but not a bad idea.
That sounds like a lot, but aside from the silencer it is all simple and cheap to put together in a single shopping trip.
A home defense gun that is short but can be steadied two-handed with a foregrip is better than a handgun mostly because of accuracy under stress, though handguns are common since those are actually able to be carried outside but that’s a whole other thing.
Glock 0.4
A what?
A Glock 27, 0.4 calibre.
Thanks for your opinions.
5.56 or 223 is a solid coyote or groundhog round and has been popular for 30+ years now. With the properly set up AR15, they can reach out 500m no problem
Either 5.56 or 12GA are great home defense rounds.
I completely spaced on the use against coyotes. AR-15s seem about ideal for that.
Hogs is another common critter.
With the right hollow point and good shot placement, I don’t see it having a problem taking down a white tail
I’ve always hunted hogs with a 30-30 because hogs are pretty agressive and will attack.
Either will work. Here in Ohio, our tiny population of hogs are small fries compared to out west
Yep I know about hogs (some other comment somewhere I mentioned them) and the biggest stopping of 5.56 for hunting is usually a legal ban on them rather than practical with the right ammo. Honestly might be for the best because otherwise some Bubba with non-hollowpoint ammo and a crooked scope would be out there maiming deer.
I mean current laws now don’t stop some hillbilly from maiming a deer with buckshot because of “headshots one drop herrr” or a low charged 38 caliber muzzleloader.
I hope they open up the laws more. My state allows all straight walled rounds 350 legend-50 cal, but no bottleneck for deer. You’re telling me a 45-70 or 50-110 is safer to use than my 22-250? Just fudd brained people making laws
Bows require strength.
M16 point and squeeze trigger.
/s
While many hunters own an ar15, they’re not a popular hunting round. The typical M16 doesn’t have enough power to take down the deer. You own ar15 because it’s fun to fire once in a while. You want a more powerful rifle or often shotgun depending on where you are because that’s what puts foods on the table. If you want to challenge, you will get a bow and arrow or a muzzle loader. They’re lots of fun. However, they take a lot more practice.
There is no one best hunting gun. That is why hunters will tend to own at least four or five guns. You want a 20-gauge shotgun for small birds. You want a 12-gauge for larger birds. You need a small rifle, say a .22 or something in that range for your squirrels and rabbits. And then you need a bigger gun, like a .30-06 common for your deer. Since guns do break once in a while, you will try and have a couple spares. Usually you’re hunting with a buddy and if a buddy has a spare that would be good enough that you can borrow it if you need it. But for one of your hunting trips, you will be that buddy that the other person borrows from. Often when you’re young you will buy a cheap gun that works but it’s not very good and so you’ll keep that while you buy a more expensive one which again adds to your collection.
Edit the ar15 is what hunters would have
While many hunters own an M16
Really?
Ar15, but they are the same other than details
OP really emphasized the full auto aspect of M16s, so in this case I think differentiating them from semi-auto AR-15 models is relevant when giving an answer.
Almost no one owns an m16. That would be a NFA (National Firearms Act) weapon that requires a special tax stamp for and would also have to be made before 1986. No new fully automatic firearms have been allowed to be made except for LEO/military purposes since 1986. All the of what you’re calling an “m16” is an AR-15 (Armalite Rifle 15) or some variant. They’re all semi-automatic.
The AR-15 is so popular because it is a very accurate, reliable rifle, and can be very affordable. It also helps that it’s the civilian model of the m16 and m4 rifles the military has. I have one that I target shoot with and it’s a very fun rifle to use. That’s probably the biggest reason it’s so popular.
I do agree that we need much stricter gun control in this country but it needs to be based around logic and fact. The “assault rifle bans” of the 90s were completely useless and didn’t van anything meaningfully dangerous. They banned things like collapsable stocks, threaded muzzles and other silly things that don’t effect the operation of the gun. Hell, California currently bans rifles with pistol grips, so when you buy an at there it just has a different grip. The function of the rifle is still the same. Personally I think we need stricter licensing on who can own a firearm. You should have to prove you are competent, capable, and safe in your use of firearms before you’re allowed to own one. That includes VERY thorough background searches and atleast 20-30 hours of instruction. The old tired adage of “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” does have some truth to it. But if less people had the guns to begin with, they’d have a lot harder time hurting people.
