Part 2: what if you found out their diagnosis 1 week after birth
let me flip the question:
if you KNEW the child you were going to conceive had the same chance of the same condition, would you still have sex?
if you’d skip it, then i see no issues with an abortion.
we don’t have foresight, but we do have hindsight. how we use it is important. nobody gets asked if they want to be alive. how dare anyone bring someone into a life of pain without their consent? part 2: if you don’t take responsibility for your own disasters, you are the disaster.
There are many factors to take this decision, but mainly in how long in the term is the fetus and the resources situation of the family (work, economic, external support, their health, etc).
In an ideal world though, induced abortion should not exist since it is the society who should completely support, and adaptively to the children’ special needs, but when society fails at that and, so far, #all societies are, it is the family and doctor the only ones who should only make the decision on a fetus. The only argument today should be when a fetus becomes a human.
We should treasure far more families that dedicate more than the usual percentage of resources to take care of their weakest of their members (children or parents) than basically anyone else in society like we do with youtubers, sport players, oligarchs, politicians, etc.
You’re extremely punchable.
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And you aren’t? What made this person deserve your threat of violence exactly? This is an insanely difficult morale question one I don’t even want to get involved in.
Edit
I don’t agree that abortion shouldn’t exist but I don’t think you’ll punch your way into this persons brain. There could be lots of ways to prevent child birth without abortion. I don’t think this person was saying nobody should get an abortion.
Your punchable.
I think it’s ethical to abort if your fetus is perfectly healthy.
It’s kinda besides the point. If a woman wants an abortion she should get an abortion. Downs syndrome or not, it doesn’t matter.
I don’t mean in a her body her choice kinda way, I mean is it more ethical to let them live their natural life knowing that they would possibly suffer immensely vs not letting them live a life at all
So you’re asking should all prior with special needs be terminated so they don’t suffer? Should all poor people?
Kinda slippery slope there tbh…
I think that anyone who isn’t ready to be a parent should have that option not to. Special needs or not. Forced birth and zero support after is terrible.
If it’s ethical to abort just because you don’t want the kid (and it is), then it’s ethical to abort for any reason.
Also, it’s no one’s business why people choose to abort.
it’s no one’s business why people choose to abort.
This. The only answer to “why” is “fuck off”, and for so many reasons. It’d suck to agonize over the decision, and once it’s made to then be second-guessed by some rando.
I mean more like “is a life of suffering worth living and would a parent want that for their kid” rather than the ethics of abortion
Preventing incurable pain and suffering to a conscious being is ethical. There is dignity in both life and death.
Without doubt.
Part 2: nope. Get used to changing babies.
I don’t know about the ethics, but forcing people to carry to term a baby with a significant developmental disability is unconscionable to me. It is very likely to ruin their marriage, finances, sanity, life, but the people that manage to do it are saints.
Yes.
Have you guys spent much time around people with Down’s syndrome? It’s typically not a uniform “life of suffering” like what many comments seem to be assuming.
It’s fair enough to try to imagine how you would feel if you had a certain disability, but never assume you’re right about that, you might be surprised. Especially with intellectual differences, I don’t think you can really know what it would be like to be that person.
My SO brother doesn’t have downs but was severe brain damaged at at young age. His whole family doesnt hate him they just wish he was better. After grandma died he lost the last person that really loved him for who he is. Everyone dreads is presence and dealing with his backpack of medication or fits of dangerous rage due to frustration understanding things from a bloke 2x their size (literally 2 meters tall).
I spoke to him enough to know he is not happy in state care but no one can handle him when things go wrong. He is a effectively 5 year old child stuck and unable to grow and alone with only his handlers. No one should have that fate if its preventable.
Yes, in my experience, aquired brain injury is one of the hardest things for people (and their families) to adapt to, but that’s a whole different kettle of fish than Down’s syndrome.
The post talks about the ethics of pre-emptively aborting a fetus that has a high likelihood of "severe downs syndrome ", and this is something many people face irl ask the time. my point is (mainly) that people with Down’s syndrome can have a lot of joy in their lives, and bring a lot of joy to those around them, despite the fact that they will face certain struggles (as so many of us do, in our own ways). And (secondly), although it’s outside the scope of the hypothetical situation in the op, foetal tests for Down’s syndrome are notoriously unreliable.
I’m just saying don’t be afraid. Most new parents want to avoid any chance of anything ‘wrong’ with their child, but nearly everyone has something…
Source: have worked with children and adults with a variety of physical and intellectual disabilities, and in my own friends and family know (and care for) a multitude of neurodiverse people and those with chronic mental illness or addictions.
Can’t really say for part 1 but for part 2 it’s definitely not abortion anymore after birth so that is unethical in my opinion.
how is severe downs defined? i thought it was an either/or thing. and they seem to be perfectly content with themselves?
interesting dilemma though, what is the limit between “who cares” and “this person probably suffers too much”?
one could probably think of a few shitty situations to be born in and when judging by this lens, shouldn’t the person decide if they have the faculties to express it? what if they don’t?
Abort whenever for whatever.
It is ethical to abort in the first part of the pregnancy. If tge fetus has a chance of disability or mental disorder.
No one is ready to take care of a disabled person instead of a healthy child.
It is ethical to give the child up for adoption (now tge adopter should be ready for the same problem).
Also it is also ethical to keep it.Yes, and infanticide is illegal.
Would it be ethical to knowingly give someone a 99% chance of a severe illness within a few months?
