My take is that it’s a reflection of the Israelite people. It’s easy to be all fire and brimstone when you can back it up with military force. Suspiciously that all went away after they got conquered…
Yahweh was originally a Levant god of war.
I feel like y’all are forgetting about all the heinous shit God does in the new testament. Just because he’s not all up front fire and brimstone about it doesn’t mean he isn’t still an evil bastard in the new book
Could you link something cause when I Google any combination of “new testament god angry/vengeful” I’m not getting allot besides religious sites sane washing it.
I’m not gonna link a source, but here’s some chapters from the good book itself:
Acts 5, God kills Ananias and Sapphira for withholding too much of their taxes. Seems like an overreaction for the new forgiving, loving, kind God.
Acts 12, God strikes down King Herod for accepting praise or some shit, which is similar to the egotistical, vengeful, immature punishments the God of the old testament frequently handed out.
Jesus (who is also God) throws some incredibly immature and irresponsible super-powered toddler tantrums, like in Mark 11 where he curses a fig tree for not bearing fruit when he was hungry, even though it was out of season, and in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus forces demons to possess a bunch (like, thousands) of pigs that just happen to be nearby, causing them all to cast themselves off a cliff and die. Jesus suggests/condones rape as a punishment in multiple instances, which is pretty fucked up, but is consistent with the whole “the sexual punishment fits the sexual “crime”” motif you see all throughout the New Testament. Jesus himself isn’t just the peace-loving, love-thy-neighbor hippie they try to portray him as - in Matthew 10 he says “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword”, basically acknowledging and condoning religious violence. Very like, un-kumbayah of him, man.
Pick a page from Revelation, that whole book is basically just God bringing about the apocalyptic end times in increasingly violent and cruel ways, including killing people a second time by tossing them into a lake of fire for not being Christian enough to make it onto his nice list.
The continued existence of hell is a big one for me as well. You’d think a truly loving, kind, and forgiving God would get rid of the eternal damnation spirit torture prison. He also doesn’t end other universally-accepted-as-immoral practices like slavery, but instead doubles down on it in Ephesians, Colossians, and probably a bunch of other places. All in all, the God of the new testament is just as much of a bastard as in the old, he’s just hiding behind the introduction of his new son (who is also a bit of a bastard, but maybe a tad less so, so people accept it) and the weird blood magic ritual sacrifice storyline.
Edit: my claim that the God of the new testament is unchanged from the one in the old is also supported by scripture - James 1 and Hebrews 13 say as much, and even Jesus says he’s not coming to shake things up, that all the old laws (including the fire and brimstone ones) still apply in Matthew 5.
Jesus’ instructions on divorce are pretty unJesus like.
Slightly off topic but DAE find it convenient that Jesus’ first lecture to his new disciples was about divorce? Like hey, guys. Forget fishing and making money and handling business, and dont worry about your wives anymore.
I’ve been out of the church for a while but always imagined Jesus as a current day socialist with feeding the poor & “how you treat the least of me…” stuff. Shame that book is so contradictory.
The entire thing is contradictory, on purpose, to give people excuses to commit atrocities in the name of their “kind and loving” God
Because god was pregnant with jesus so she was all crazy lol
Going well beyond my competencies to answer, but I think a lot of it comes down to monotheism changing the nature of god.
Judaism thinks of itself as starting monotheism; and that is largely true. However, the old testament is still littered with vestiges of it’s polytheistic origins.
If there are multiple God’s, then those God’s will come into conflict. That is simply the nature of human storytelling.
Looking at the old Testament, probably the most violent God has been was during exodus. In addition to freeing the Jews, he smite the Egyptians with 10 plagues, among which was the death of all firstborn sons.
For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. (Exodus 12:12)
Note the polytheistic origins of this story. God is not merely intervening in the Earthly affairs of us lowly humans. The Jewish God is fighting with the Egyptian gods. He does not have the luxury of being nice and good. Even if he wins this fight without resorting to such drastic measures; he still needs to do so to act as a deterrent against other gods acting against him. That is not so much a specific tactical calculation in this case, but the way humans tend to imagine polytheistic gods working (reflective, of course, of the way human conflict tends to work).
It probably doesn’t help that Yahweh was the god of War before becoming the only God.
By the time we get to the new testament, the situation is different. Beyond merely declaring that their god is the only God, the early Christians believed it, and had believed it for generations of storytelling. Their view of God had shed the vestiges of polytheism and morphed into what is truly possible under monotheism. God can be good because he lacks a peer rival. There is no narrative reason for God to be mean, because he can simply win any direct confrontation he faces.
We see similar dynamics play out in modern story telling. When we have vastly overpowered characters, the nature of the conflicts they get in us not fights. Perhaps they are trying to mediate between lesser parties. Perhaps they want to get something while respecting the rights and interests in weaker parties. A story where a vastly superior force wants something and just takes it is boring; so we don’t tell it.
Wow, this comment section… Yikes. Without getting deep in the weeds, testament means covenant. It was god’s new agreement with man. In layman’s terms, matthew 1:1 starts out like, “here’s the deal man”.
It was god’s new agreement with man
Um, isnt ‘gawd’ the boss? Cant he just make rules and a system that works and boom it happens?
Frankly instead of all this armchair biblical experts, its probably better to get answers from real experts like Justin from Deconstruction Zone.
Oh dude I just saw Justin on The Line last night with Forrest Valkai, dude seems to know the Bible like the back of his hand
No argument here. Literally. I have no dog in any respective race. Figuratively.
And I would imagine that the community “no stupid questions” is not intended to be a repository of questions exclusively for SME’s. As I understand it is an open forum to ask unspecified questions judgement free. I would presume that since the question is judgement free, the responses should be too. But this comment section is seething with judgements that add very little to the conversation regarding the basic query from OP. So, thanks for the suggestion on Justin. I assume they have a lot to say and I’m sure others will find it invaluable. This is not something I have a significant interest in myself so I’ll take your word for it. Thanks.
Full disclosure Im an atheist. The answer ive been given before is something along the lines of ‘after jesus died and did his whole thing, part of the deal with jesus dying is now mankind and god enter into a “new testament” and now the new one supersedes the old one’, but thats a very rough paraphrasing.
How any of this makes any sense is beyond me. God killed himself for himself to have himself stop hating us…?
How any of this makes any sense is beyond me
In religions nothing makes sense and thats the entire point. All religions are a basically a gullibility test, and they only want the ones who Fail that test to be in their cult. Its been like this for thousands of years.
That’s simply not true. God talks more about Hell in the New Testament than He does in the old testament. He also is forgiving in the old (Exodus 34:7, Psalm 103:12, Psalm 86:5)
There’s basically no change.
The book of Jonah revolves around Jonah not wanting his god to forgive Nineveh.
Another good example, and God forgiving them anyway
PR mandated rebranding
Old Testament -> young people behavior.
New Testament -> old people behaviour.
( yeah I know there are exceptions )
Read again keeping that in mind. Read news to look for allegory. People don’t change at all.Because they exist for different audiences.
What works to keep people in line in prehistory is not the same as what works in ancient Rome, is not the same as works now.
Thats why all religions change over time, even if they like to say they don’t.
They switched writers.
God became terrified of us after the tower of babel, so he told his minions to write the new testament in a more positive way, so we wouldn’t seek to invade his realm and take control over creation in revenge for the atrocities he did to us.
Different guy
Different guy
Oh wait so now jeebus wasnt “god”? Wow nice post hoc rationalization you got there, be a shame if anything happened to it
It’s like that Shaggy song, “It Wasn’t Me”
Why Hulk can defeat Wolverine in one comic but in the next one gets obliterated by someone weaker?
I don’t see how hulk can defeat wolverine.
The old testament was all about acting a certain way and laws, laws, laws. The new testament says just try your best to love and respect each other. In theory anyways. Humans be humaning though and human nature trumps religion every time.
