So, my good friend (18m) had a falling out with his ex (19m) because the ex bullied him and also because he is apparently dating a 16f, so my friend thinks he is a pedophile for obvious reasons (adult + minor).
I can see why this would be considered bad but also, when I turn 16, my girlfriend will be 19 too, as I am currently a young sophomore who is about 3 years younger than her girlfriend, a senior.
39 and 16? Bad. 25 and 15? Bad. 55 and 17? Bad.
Glad we cleared some of those examples up. Oh and so long as this 16-19 relationship isn’t all sexual because the moment someone figures it out that it is, it won’t matter what your beliefs are, past 18 is legal adult age and she’s still a teen. That’s like, going up against a universally agreed wrong thing to do vs your beliefs.
I think with an european perspective 16 and 19 sounds like a bit significant difference to me, and most possibly others may get worried.
Imo 17 and 19 is totally okay, but I hope your relationship will stand and stay safe.
The problem with age gaps isn’t age; it’s experience and power. Three years is still a big percentage of your life right now. In ten years time, three years will not be as significant a part of your life.
Think about how different you expect to be as a person in three years. Can you even realistically imagine who you will be?
As far as relationships - they work out when the people in them have common goals, and they fail- no matter how much love is in there- when the people involved are going in different directions in life. Part of your problem at your age is that the direction of your like is likely to change drastically over the coming years in ways you cannot anticipate.
I appreciate this answer, because it at least tries to reason from first principles. You can’t, imo, have this conversation without actually defining what we consider to be the problem.
I think the key concern is that age – particularly during teenage years – typically correlates with a power imbalance. And the concern is that the younger person could be exploited and/or suffer harm. However we need to remember:
- It’s possible for relationships to have a power imbalance and no one is harmed or looks back with regret.
- It’s possible for relationships between people of the same age to be very harmful/regretable.
So the questions I have are: how correlated is a specific age gap with severe harm? And what would we advise in this situation?
I think that a 16 year-old probably has around a 50% of getting badly hurt in a relationship with another 16 year-old, and probably a ~65% chance with a 19 year-old. Because a 19 year-old can probably manipulate a 16 year-old better than their peer, but they’re also presumably a bit more experienced and mature, which can be a good thing.
I’m making these predictions presuming that they’re sexually active, btw. Which I think is probable. But if they’re not, I think that the risks go down to around 10% chance in both cases. This is just my gut impression. So I’d just advise any 16 year-old in a relationship with a 19 year-old to move VERY slowly physically, and talk frequently to an older friend or sibling. And if your partner wants to do anything you’re uncomfortable talking about with your older friend or sibling, that’s a sign you shouldn’t do it.
If you follow that rule, I think 16 and 19 is no big deal. Because I really want to emphasize: a lot of the risk already exists when a 16 year-old dates someone their own age.
16-19? Not pedophilia. Not literally nor legally, move on.
Pedophilia means being attracted by somebody who does not show sexual maturity yet, and I strongly doubt that I the case (I have a 16yo daughter, so…). And laws, usually, have clear exceptions for similar ages people like this, as it’s expected and quite normal. I mean given how stupid males are at that age, he being 3y older alny means they are closer than two 16yo.
Are they both in school? Is there some power imbalance or abuse? Otherwise, move on and let them live their lives.
*age divided by two plus seven, round up with acknowledgments to experience gaps / power dynamics"/
“19 / 2 = 9.5 + 7 = 16.5” rounded is a plain seventeen.
His ex is in the wrong. Not even taking into account the experience gap between the two / power dynamics.
While I don’t know your specifics kid, I recommend taking some time to write down a few things:
- What you’re capable of versus what your older girlfriend is capable of.
- What are you able to provide versys what your older girlfriend is able to provide.
- What you give verus what you get.
The final advice is be careful of those older than you until you’re at least done with college.
Grey area. The suggestion that it’s pedophilia is silly given they’re close in age, but a 3-4 year age gap when someone is 16 can be pretty significant; I’d consider it a warning sign.
Definitely a warning sign. It really depends on the specifics because people mature at different rates, but there’s a much higher chance of it being problematic. There’s the half your age plus 7 rule, but it doesn’t really work if you are under 22.
There’s the half your age plus 7 rule, but it doesn’t really work if you are under 22.
Doesn’t it?
- 14/2+7 = 14. It’s questionable for anybody under 14 to be in a romantic or sexual relationship even if the other person is the exact same age.
- 16/2+7 = 15. People tend to mature rapidly in this age range, so dating someone much younger is sketchy.
- 18/2+7 = 16.
- 20/2+7 = 17.
These line up with my intuition for the age gap being acceptable, not something that should raise eyebrows. A little outside that becomes a warning sign. A lot outside that is almost certainly abusive.
21 and 17 can be a big gap, even 20 and 17 can be. It’s not as clear cut as 22, which can also be sketchy but is at least recognized as fully legal everywhere. I think there’s too much diversity in maturity and life experience at those young ages, the potential for issues increases so those kinds of relationships are inherently concerning in ways that relationships involving legal adults are not. I’m not saying they are inherently problematic, but if you know people with that kind of age gap you should be looking out for the underage person to ensure they aren’t being taken advantage of.
Yeah, my first boyfriend had been jumped up two grades, so I was 16 and he was 14. It never went beyond awkward kissing in the alley after class tho.
Not pedophilia since not prepubescent.
In the medical sense a therapist treating someone for pedophilia would use the term, you’re correct. In a colloquial sense, Epstein was a pedophile.
I feel like as long as they’re (the seniors) still in school, then it should be fine.
I personally know someone that almost this exact situation has happened to.
As said, case by case situation. It’s an adult dating a minor, but sufficiently close in age to be waived, with several restrictions and close watch by all involved, especially family members.
So A) depending on the state or country’s age of consent and/or Romeo-juliet exceptions, their may or may not be anything legally disallowed by a 16 year old dating and being sexually active with a 19 year old or older.
B) It certainly doesn’t get more morally wrong in your situation where you’re already seeing someone 3 years older than you, as you get older. That difference only becomes less significant as you age.
C) If the age of consent or Romeo-juliet laws do not make a carve out for your situation, and you were dating and sexually active when they were 17 then likely your partner would’ve already been breaking the law before they were an adult. The difference now is that they’d be tried as an adult if they were to be charged.
D) As for the question, is there actually anything wrong with it. In the vast majority of cases, yes, there is something wrong about it, objectively. But also, it’s not necessarily a big problem in the end, sometimws. The problem comes down to three things. 1) Generally speaking, people your age lack real world insight into adulthood and adult relationships and struggle to make mature, rational, long-term-thinking decisions without the overwhelming power of novelty and emotion that comes with young love. I don’t say that to be insulting, just call it the wisdom of hindsight. We were all, to some degree, still kids at your age, and made stupid decisions that many of us regret. That is something an older partner should be cognizant of too, when they are receiving your consent to sexual acts, that your lack of experience means you may not fully appreciate what you are consenting to. 2) Even if you are mature, understand your decisions, and consent with the full understanding and appreciation of what that consent means, the relationship will almost necessarily have an unhealthy imbalance. They being adults typically means that they have more money, more freedom, and more control over the relationship. Truly healthy adult relationships are a partnership been coequal people. 16 year olds are still kids and typically still the responsibility of parents or guardians, still in school, still responsible only for a small fraction of their own care. And many at that age see older partners as a way to jump the line and soup ahead to becoming adults early, but it doesn’t work like that. 3) Even if it is legal, there is a stigma (and not a wholly unjustified one) that your partner will face that you will not. And if it’s not legal, there’s an even huger risk to your partner, losing their freedom, having their name in a sec offense registry, struggling to find homes or jobs, that again, you don’t face. That’s not fair and it’s simply not a good idea and it’s a risk to both partners.
But like I said, it’s not necessarily all that bad. It could be legal, mature, fully consentual, coequal, and neither partner suffers due to the relationship. And it can workout long term. But I do gotta warn you, that is definitely not the norm.
nah. a three year difference is nothing. its ok for teens to date teens.
13 and 19 is really bad so the broad statement “it’s ok for teens to date teens” definitely needs a big asterisk. 16 and 19 is probably the biggest gap that’s not unequivocally creepy but can still be bad considering how different people develop
it doesn’t seem weird as an adult to think about that gap, but that’s a freshman and a senior and yes that is weird
At those ages its tough. I have a friend who secretly started dating his wife when she was in junior high while he was in high school. Once she was 18 they officially started dating for a year then did the one year engagement and then got married to be all proper but they had known each other for like half a decade or more before the official thing. Have not hung around with them for awhile but from facebook they still seem to be married and their kids are getting pretty old. Ultimately he is only like 4 years older than her and something which if your talking 18 and 22 is no big deal but 18 and 14 gets real weird.
I can’t say a believe in rules like the half your age plus 7 thing but barely adult and barely minor is not pedophilia, particularly if you were together before aging up to adult, but even if not. The line at 18 is arbitrary, some places that’s 16, and I don’t think 18 is adult like a grownup, that seems to take a few more years. There are also usually laws that say it’s not illegal if you are within some number of years, not a big gap.
That adult/minor split happened to my kid, they were a senior and girlfriend a junior so after graduation we tease them about “dating a high schooler” but they are the same couple as before.
A 3 year gap will just seem smaller and smaller (in that way the half plus 7 thing is true, it’s just stupid as a hard rule). I’m old and 5 years in either direction is about as far as I like to go, because I like guys my age, and that’s what seems “my age” now.
The half your age plus 7 rule holds up even then in my book. It’s not like you turn 18 and have to suddenly dump your 17 year old partner.
19/2=9.5, 9.5+7 is 16.5. so if she’s closer to 17 than just turned 16 than the rule holds up. He is on the lowest bar though.
You’re going to find there’s a lot of creepy guys who hang around your high school and try to get with high school girls because they’re emotionally stunted and don’t know how to attract someone of the same age. When you see a 22 year old guy prowling around a 16 or 17 year old, alarm bells should be going off. Your friend? It’s nearing weird but if this is a one-off case I wouldn’t be too surprised. It’s like a senior dating a sophomore.
It’s not a big deal. The only people complain are social justice warriors. If you were 22 and they were 25 no one would care. It’s 3 years. People are brainwashed to get triggered over it. Lol it’s not even their business
social justice warriors
Okay boomer.
The difference in age between 22 and 25 is a lot less than between 19 and 16.
Its exactly the same. 3 years on paper and 4 year of duration. I don’t know what lala land you’re living in but it’s the same numerically
The same numerically. You’re not that obtuse, so is this a joke or are you a cringey debatelord?
numerically adverb
In a numerical manner; in numbers; with respect to number, or sameness in number.Doubling down on feigned obtuseness, I see.
You can take the girl out of Reddit, but can’t take the Reddit out of the girl.
You’re not talking about anything. Just typing for fun
A 10 year age gap is the same numerically at age 40-50 as it is at age 10-20 but they are clearly vastly different. There’s an implicit power imbalance.
So you give a whole new example. Do you want to compare an one hundred year gap now? They are different things. You just gave a more extreme example. 4 years is not much and doesn’t matter
I gave a more extreme example to demonstrate that your “they are the same numerically” idea is flawed
You proved nothing. You simple made a different point using the same system in a different manner. If one bee sting doesn’t kill you let me make bee stings sound more lethal by saying 200 bee stings in a row would. 🥸
Your critical thinking skills are somewhat lacking, I’m sorry to say
It’s the same numerically, like you said.
If you were 22 and they were 25 no one would care. It’s 3 years.
Try moving that in the other direction though; I expect you’ll eventually find pairing that makes you uncomfortable.
Who cares about your hypotheticals. We are talking about teenagers who smoke, drink, fight. They aren’t 4 and 7. You all surely can comprehend this
If it really was a 4-year-old dating a 7-year-old, I unironically feel like that would be more comfortable, probably because “dating” between little children is kind of silly in my mind.
Overall, my take would probably be “An adult who deliberately gets into a relationship with a minor (like the friend’s ex) is kind of weird, while an established couple with a 3-year age gap (like Jessica/Vitor herself) is fine.”
It’s subjective. You think it’s silly but someone else might think it’s gross. In 78% of America the age of consent is either the age 16 or 17.
You all have to accept this. I will add that it’s all made up anyway. Your an “adult” when you’re 18 but can’t drink until your 21. I thought you were an adult already. You can’t even rent a car until you’re 25 without an extra fee because they don’t consider you “adult enough”
They are all constructs. Only existing within the minds of certain people with reality and the universe caring nothing about it at all
Super creepy
