Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
That’s why I left. Its such a weird authoritarian way of dealing with stuff. Just ban everything and everyone you don’t agree with. Also make it a collective punishment while we’re at it…
Im sorry how is making an instance vote a “weird authoritarian way of dealing with stuff”? Or is authoritarism when someone does something you dont agree with?
Go to their matrix channels, they’re throwing around ACAB, generalizing people and if you don’t support nuking israel, you will be banned for supporting the genocide. There is no debate, there is no discussion its a hive that moves into a certain direction and if you don’t you are an outcast. Words do still mean things and acting like you can’t govern democratically and authoritarian at the same time makes no sense.
Also acting like every community on feddit.org is a genocide supporting shithole is just crazy. The fediverse lives from its interoperability across the knots. I am a grown ass adult, I don’t need DB0 to make the moral decision for me with whom I can interact and with whom I can not. What I think is quite ironic, is the fact that even though the instance is “anarchistic”, everyone is licking the boots of the governing authority pretty good. I guess you either die a hero or live long enough to become a power tripping bastard yourself.
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The issue starts beforehand. It’s easy to get an instance vote to agree with you if you ban and insult everybody on your instance who is not agreeing with you. That works exactly like those voter registration purges the Trump admin is doing.
Except they are not banning “everybody on [their] instance who is not agreeing with [them]”, they are banning Zionazis and their symps.
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Thanks for linking that, that proves my point. If you have banned all “pro-zionist users” (whatever that is), it is no surprise that the next vote for banning a “pro-zionist instance” will also go succeed. Let’s have another vote in a few weeks proposing to ban all users who were against banning that “pro-zionist instance”! Democracy at work!
It’s a good thing to ban Zionists, actually. Support for genocidal settler-colonialism is bad.
Sure, I don’t want to share space with people who want to welcome Zionazis.
What if instead of republicans day dreaming about what a vote would look like without women’s suffrage
We imagine what democracy would look like if we didn’t allow fascists to vote
“These two are the same thing”
They were specific about what they didn’t agree with: Authoritarianism.
And if they don’t want to tolerate guests from an instance that allows Zionism, then good. Any feddit.org members who think their admins’ permissiveness is tolerable are complicit in the promotion of Zionism, even if they aren’t intentionally complicit. Yes, hanging around with pro-genocide people should earn punishment, such as ostracization until they stop hanging around pro-genocide people. It’s a social media account on the Fediverse, switching isn’t difficult.
We did the same thing to Wolfballs, until their admin closed the instance because it was filled with literal neo-Nazis calling the admin a ‘race-traitor’. Tolerating every belief is utopian, pointless and self-destructive.
Basically, when you tolerate the intolerant, tolerance dies. You need social rules to maintain the order, that means some beliefs need to be culled by kicking out or silencing those who are dangerous.
It’s authoritarian to do direct democracy? OK then, I guess words mean nothing anymore.
The vote itself is not. This is not just about this single vote.
What is it about then?
It’s not weird, its’ just that this is how cowards and aspiring despots deal with things. You don’t address them, or let them be seen/heard, you silence them or shut them out. You certainly don’t allow dialogue that might allow for understanding… we can’t have that.
Ironically one of the biggest draws for me, to reddit in the early days, and in the fediverse two years ago, was the notion that people can have differenting opinions and exchange them with civility and learn from each other. But I’m a big gay cishet transexual anti-zionist nazi pedo fascist centrist idiot, or so lemmy.ml users has been telling me the past few months.
I don’t particularly love db0 as a mainly hexbear user, but this is ridiculous. They did an absolutely gorgeous move by democratically voting to defed from Zionist instances, and you call that authoritarian. Defense against fascists is not authoritarian, it’s literally the opposite.
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That’s literally the best and fairest way to deal with that kind of stuff here. No risky permissivity, no manhunts / withchunts, no putting the onus on other people. db0 as an instance is weird for a lot of thigs, but honestly, compared to the rest of the world, not on that.
There was a vote for it though. Any user right now could open a vote to refederate.
Would you allow nazism in the fediverse?
If we don’t allow Nazis because they are hateful and violent, why should we allow hateful and violent communists/socialists/anarchists?
Is it the hate and violence we should ban? Why is a Nazi calling to kill non-whites radically worse than a communist calling for the death of non-communists? Both simple think violence and hate is perfectly justified over differences, real or perceived.
And some of us libtard facists think the idea of killing people over any differences, is what is stupid and wrong, no matter what your identity, ideology or belief.
We shouldn’t allow people defending morally wrong stuffs that goes to all the ideological spectrum.Now answer the question would you allow supremacist and genocidal ideologies in the platforms you use?
Yeah because I’m centrist and according to lemmy nutbags I’m already genocidal supremacist by proxy, because to them any ideology outside of marxism-leninism is inherently genocidal or something.
Nor am I naive or arrogant enough to believe I am the singular person who should determine what ‘genocidal’ means. There are UN organizations for that.
Stop deflecting. Would you allow supermasist ideologies like nazism? If no why do you oppose censoring zionism the supermasist ideology behind israel colonization of Palestine
Well I don’t think Nazism is one single thing dude. Not all Nazis are the same and think the same things. Every ideology has internal debates and various camps. It all depends on the specifics, which is why I would rather deal with it user by user and judge users for their actions, not their ideologies/beliefs. I also understand the concept of context. Is a community that is making fun of Nazis by using their slogans, promoting Nazism? A lot of people certainly could not draw the distinction. What about a community that wants to talk about Nazism in a historical context? Is that promoting genocide?
You call it ‘deflection’ I called it being reasonable and not making massive generalizations. Nazism and Zionism are not One Big Thing That is Evil. Lots of people, yourself include, probably have beliefs that are in agreement with several aspects of them, and disagree with others. My beef isn’t with an ideology, it’s with calls to violence, no matter what ideology they are coming from. And lots and lots of people from various ideologies call for violence and perpetuate hate and rage. I see a buttload of it coming from lemmy leftists of various self-identified flavors. If I am going to assume Nazis are evil and bad them for their violent ideology, then I’ve got to basically ban communists/socialists/anarchists too, because by your logic both are equivalently evil.
But the main disagreement we have here is that you think ideologies are the problem. I don’t. I think people are the problem. If a particular insane of ‘Nazis’ has self identified and organized itself around violence and hate, sure I’d ban them. But there are tons of contexts in which discussion of Nazis and their beliefs would be totally permissible and admirable. I myself have done various history projects on the KKK and supremacy and papers on the ideology in my academic career. Am I therefore promoting or believing in Nazi ideology?
In a professional context, like say legit hate groups being investigated by FBI or the press, what is targeted is the actions of the group and the individuals therein. That’s what I’m interested in policing, not thought or discussion.
Israel declaration of independence mention Herzl as the spiritual father of the state. Herzl advocated for ethnic cleansing
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
You can’t claim to be anti genocide and settler colonialism if you don’t think Zionism is a problem
The mods of feddit support the ideology they do not frame it in historical lenses but in a way to justify the nekba , neksa and the continuation of the settler colonialism project
That’s guilt by association. It’s a fallacy. Lots of national leaders and founders were racists and horrible people in various factors. That doesn’t mean the states necessarily were or are or forever will be.
I don’t claim to be anything. You are making all the claims here about who is what. Where I stand agonizing about genocide and dividing everyone up into pro and anti is simply stupid. My understanding is that the current Israeli government and its hardliner supporters are are engaged in a unnecessary escalated conflict, largely motivated by their own beliefs. However, that has not always been the case and various parties in the government do not agree. The conflict in Gaza is part of a much larger history that goes back centuries and isn’t ‘Zionism’.
But I’m interested in history and reality, not moralizing catchphrases and moral grandstanding over issues for which my views have zero political relevance or impact. I’m not a citizen of the state of Israel.
They really lost the plot when they joined the tankie triad.
Good to see that the definition of tankie now includes anti-Zionism.
How can it be a triad if there are 4 🤓
dont send me selfies
I don’t wear glasses, actually.