And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don’t really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.
I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay.
One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just… “Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!”
But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
If we are using that to tell how much like Nazis a nation is plenty of democratic countries are a lot closer to Nazi Germany than China.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad.
I’m not claiming that China has never done anything that I don’t agree with, however if we are measuring their results, it’s hard to conclude that it’s ill advised. In the last 40 years China has lifted nearly a billion people out of extreme poverty and has done so with out endless cycles of wars.
Meanwhile democratic nations in the West have seen more of their citizens slide into to poverty while killing millions of people in forever wars.
But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
Again, I don’t agree with a lot of the CCP policies. That being said, I do think there are some exaggerations when it comes to the Uyghur people, though based on their own information I would say there is a pattern of ethnic prejudice
That being said, even if we use the most inflammatory information from western media and utilize the high estimate of 1.8 million ethnic minorities being put into reeducation camps. That’s less than 1/6th of the Uyghur population in China. Less than the 2 million people currently incarcerated in the US, of those whom nearly 40% are from an ethnic minority who only make up around 10% of the total population.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
Yes, you can. Generally, any country where an ideology goes over individuals’ well-being tends to do this shit. China does, USA does as well. Not terribly surprising.
1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.
What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
Show me a democratic country where this happens. You’re giving me China and USA. And there’s also the Russia.
But is there actually a democratic country where people are handled they way countries such as USA and China do?
My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours. I was backpacking in Kazakstan and China and the repression was easy to notice with bare eyes. The Uyghurs wouldn’t be that scared of a 7-year-old Han-girl if there was no repression.
How was your visit to East Türkestan?
Oh, and Uyghurs are not Arabs, BTW! They are a Turkic nation.
And so is the video linked. You can also use your own logic to notice its fallacies. You don’t get just anyone invited to a soccer match. It’s an important situation for propaganda, so you only allow people there who know what truth to say if anyone asks. And what kind of face to show. Ones that know what will happen to them and their relatives if they fall off the line.
I don’t know why you believe the “dude trust me” guy on the video. Nor why I should trust you, dude.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter (A/HRC/41/G/17) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang.
Welcomes the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat’s delegation upon invitation from the People’s Republic of China; commends the efforts of the People’s Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and looks forward to further cooperation between the OIC and the People’s Republic of China.
I didn’t post a link to any videos dumbass, my source is the verifiable fact that the majority of muslim nations on earth investigated in person and are calling bullshit on us. They have far more credibility than the US and our lackeys and our media, there is no actual evidence to contradict their findings, it’s the same sort of atrocity propaganda we used to justify invading Iraq & Afghanistan.
US is a shithole country. I wouldn’t go there if they paid me to. I do not care of what US is or is not. For your US-centric, well, you: USA and China are two wholly separate countries. US doing something does not mean that China is automatically good/bad as a result of whatever dumb thing the US government decides to do.
And “we” did not justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan. The rally against the war in Iraq was probably the largest rally there has ever been in Finland, for crying out loud!
You were the implying that bad things would happen to the diplomatic observers from the Arab League if they didn’t parrot the required Chinese propaganda.
But yeah, I would imagine that their countries were pressured into this by some kind of a trade deal. Just like a Christian country can help undermine another Christian country for personal profit, a Muslim country can help undermine another Muslim country for personal profit.
Here and here are two texts on the subject which cover some of the same things as that video (albeit not from a first-hand person-from-the-US-traveling-in-Xinjiang perspective like the video does).
I don’t think there’s anything that can only be achieved by that.
But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.
And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing’s liking. Or yours.
the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country
The CPC has 100 million members, it’s their job to represent the people. This is like saying “the government decides what happens”
Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time
I spent 3 months in Xinjiang, I didn’t notice this, but can’t remember the last time I looked at a clock that wasn’t on a phone.
Any religion is a problem
You’re recycling anti-soviet propaganda. China isn’t atheist. For China, they officially support religion, but in practice recognize religious organizations as potential problems due to history, from the boxer rebellion to Fulong gong to ETIM terrorist attacks. They reconcile this by providing funding and official support to religious institutions, but exert pressure (I’m unclear how exactly) to promote less radical factions and don’t provide as many special privileges in areas where there’s risks of extremism, for example there’s religious schools in Xi’an, but not Urumqi. Personally I think the situation with private schools and hukou is a mess that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t ration education by income and zip code, but as an outsider, I don’t have the nuanced understanding how to do this in a way that doesn’t impinge on the rights of minorities and helps to preserve their culture, but the Chinese I’ve asked about this seem less concerned about losing aspects of their own unique cultures than having a common language and understanding, which IMO is a god-awful take, discarding the work of millennia of human development.
nation as religious as Uyghurs
How do you measure how religious a group of people are?
The Soviet Union had no colonies. This was always projection on the part of colonial and neocolonial countries for the USSR’s unwavering support for national liberation struggles, which earned them incredible amounts of sanctions.
Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia’s current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia’s colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.
Modern Russia had no colonies to inherit, it has no colonies. The Soviet Union liberated the Tsar’s colonies and thus modern Russia had none to inherit.
I completely agree.
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don’t really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.
I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay. One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just… “Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!” But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
If we are using that to tell how much like Nazis a nation is plenty of democratic countries are a lot closer to Nazi Germany than China.
I’m not claiming that China has never done anything that I don’t agree with, however if we are measuring their results, it’s hard to conclude that it’s ill advised. In the last 40 years China has lifted nearly a billion people out of extreme poverty and has done so with out endless cycles of wars.
Meanwhile democratic nations in the West have seen more of their citizens slide into to poverty while killing millions of people in forever wars.
Again, I don’t agree with a lot of the CCP policies. That being said, I do think there are some exaggerations when it comes to the Uyghur people, though based on their own information I would say there is a pattern of ethnic prejudice
That being said, even if we use the most inflammatory information from western media and utilize the high estimate of 1.8 million ethnic minorities being put into reeducation camps. That’s less than 1/6th of the Uyghur population in China. Less than the 2 million people currently incarcerated in the US, of those whom nearly 40% are from an ethnic minority who only make up around 10% of the total population.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
Yes, you can. Generally, any country where an ideology goes over individuals’ well-being tends to do this shit. China does, USA does as well. Not terribly surprising.
1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.
What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.
Show me a democratic country where this happens. You’re giving me China and USA. And there’s also the Russia. But is there actually a democratic country where people are handled they way countries such as USA and China do?
The vast majority of muslim nations on earth got together to send delegates to investigate in person and they declared the accusations to be baseless.
My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours. I was backpacking in Kazakstan and China and the repression was easy to notice with bare eyes. The Uyghurs wouldn’t be that scared of a 7-year-old Han-girl if there was no repression.
How was your visit to East Türkestan?
Oh, and Uyghurs are not Arabs, BTW! They are a Turkic nation.
Cool story bro.
Oh, and not all Muslims are Arabs, BTW!
Listen, FUCK the IAEA you could see those Iraqi chemical weapons factories with your bare eyes
Where did I get this red fish from?? Got an answer for that??
Hehe, and how many were actually found after Iraq had been succesfully invaded? Correct.
Your experiences are worthless, try shutting the fuck up and listening
Well, your source is shit.
And so is the video linked. You can also use your own logic to notice its fallacies. You don’t get just anyone invited to a soccer match. It’s an important situation for propaganda, so you only allow people there who know what truth to say if anyone asks. And what kind of face to show. Ones that know what will happen to them and their relatives if they fall off the line.
I don’t know why you believe the “dude trust me” guy on the video. Nor why I should trust you, dude.
State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China | Colum Lynch, Foreign Policy. (2021)
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, “The review did not substantiate the allegations.” (See: World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China)
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter (A/HRC/41/G/17) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang.
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States in 2019 which:
Books, Articles, or Essays:
I didn’t post a link to any videos dumbass, my source is the verifiable fact that the majority of muslim nations on earth investigated in person and are calling bullshit on us. They have far more credibility than the US and our lackeys and our media, there is no actual evidence to contradict their findings, it’s the same sort of atrocity propaganda we used to justify invading Iraq & Afghanistan.
US is a shithole country. I wouldn’t go there if they paid me to. I do not care of what US is or is not. For your US-centric, well, you: USA and China are two wholly separate countries. US doing something does not mean that China is automatically good/bad as a result of whatever dumb thing the US government decides to do.
And “we” did not justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan. The rally against the war in Iraq was probably the largest rally there has ever been in Finland, for crying out loud!
Yes, because China is well known to assasinate diplomats and family members of political opponents in dozens of countries around the world…
Please link some reference to this.
You were the implying that bad things would happen to the diplomatic observers from the Arab League if they didn’t parrot the required Chinese propaganda.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that.
But yeah, I would imagine that their countries were pressured into this by some kind of a trade deal. Just like a Christian country can help undermine another Christian country for personal profit, a Muslim country can help undermine another Muslim country for personal profit.
i recommend this recent video by Eric Hovagim to learn more about the Uyghur topic (but i guess you’ll probably skip it based on its title?)
Who has time for videos? Reading is much faster.
(I generally skip all video links, nothing personal)
Here and here are two texts on the subject which cover some of the same things as that video (albeit not from a first-hand person-from-the-US-traveling-in-Xinjiang perspective like the video does).
I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.
“Why?”
Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.
Blargh, the guy’s eaten the hook with bait and floater.
Ok, can you tell the reason why? What is the thing that China wants that can only be achieved by mass murder and genocide of its working population?
I don’t think there’s anything that can only be achieved by that.
But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.
And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing’s liking. Or yours.
The CPC has 100 million members, it’s their job to represent the people. This is like saying “the government decides what happens”
I spent 3 months in Xinjiang, I didn’t notice this, but can’t remember the last time I looked at a clock that wasn’t on a phone.
You’re recycling anti-soviet propaganda. China isn’t atheist. For China, they officially support religion, but in practice recognize religious organizations as potential problems due to history, from the boxer rebellion to Fulong gong to ETIM terrorist attacks. They reconcile this by providing funding and official support to religious institutions, but exert pressure (I’m unclear how exactly) to promote less radical factions and don’t provide as many special privileges in areas where there’s risks of extremism, for example there’s religious schools in Xi’an, but not Urumqi. Personally I think the situation with private schools and hukou is a mess that needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t ration education by income and zip code, but as an outsider, I don’t have the nuanced understanding how to do this in a way that doesn’t impinge on the rights of minorities and helps to preserve their culture, but the Chinese I’ve asked about this seem less concerned about losing aspects of their own unique cultures than having a common language and understanding, which IMO is a god-awful take, discarding the work of millennia of human development.
How do you measure how religious a group of people are?
The Soviet Union had no colonies. This was always projection on the part of colonial and neocolonial countries for the USSR’s unwavering support for national liberation struggles, which earned them incredible amounts of sanctions.
Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia’s current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia’s colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.
Modern Russia had no colonies to inherit, it has no colonies. The Soviet Union liberated the Tsar’s colonies and thus modern Russia had none to inherit.
That was quite informative, thanks for sharing!