Tell that to Hong Kong demonstrators on June 16, 2019, estimated by organizers at 2 million people marching. Hong Kong had a population of 7.5 million at the time.
Sure there was violence both before and after that protest, but mostly caused by violent crackdown by police.
But did it fail because there was violence or was violence a sign of stronger opposition? Causation vs correlation and all that.
Considering the UK’s biggest export is independence days, it’s kind of hard to think that all of those were solved through non violent means.
How many of those were backed by much more powerful foreign powers?
there has to be a big ass asterisk on his post. generally things like the civil rights movement got partially undone and then success can be nebulous since even in a movement there are subset of goals that might not have been achieved
Non violent protests work on a platform of sympathy, violence is fear, a lot of people lack any sympathy for no kings protests and those against it don’t seem to fear it
How are you going to demand change when a ragtag militia force can stop it?
sure, BBC. tell us how youd like us to express our dissatisfaction.
the fact msm is doing this so desperately rn 🤔
So how do you keep the police from making it violent?
Numbers.
The simplest answer is usually not one that works, you can disperse crowds with water cannons alone and eliminate stragglers with arrests and rubber bullets
The real answer would probably end up being violence in the end, planned action to sabotage police movements, forming communes to act in unison and to act against the state and their tools
High participation raises the likelihood that the people in the police, military, national guard, have friends and family on the other side. This makes them less likely to use force and more likely to defect.
They are already outnumbered.
Police like to be more violent the more they’re outnumbered!
What does that have to do with non-violent protesters?
Did the violent attacks by police & police dogs make the Birmingham campaign a violent protest?
Yes!
Wrong, brah: a violent response doesn’t make a violent protest.
The narrative becomes one of violence when violence becomes involved. Cultural thing.
That second part is especially encouraging.
It shouldn’t be. Asserting that “no non-violent protests have failed” ignores an obvious null hypothesis.
Tyrannical regimes attack non-violent protests that get large enough, and then call said movements “violent” to justify what the state did to them.
Chenoweth didn’t “assert” anything, she looked at hundreds of campaigns over the last century and reported results. Her work is linked in the article - you’re welcome to critique her methodology after reading it. Null hypothesis my ass.
It’s about resistance, not violence per we. Choosing the right kind of resistance for the situation is how change is made. Non violent protesting is for raising awareness and building solidarity. Violence is purely for defense and to show when a line has been crossed. Otherwise your movement will just become the next police state regime, if it doesn’t get crushed outright. People advocating for violence on social media are either bots or bad faith actors trying to stop the movement. Anyone seriously considering violence against the state sure as shit aren’t posting about it on Lemmy.
I’d say that being distruptive is what we should be discussing about. Strikes or boycotts, when organized well, can be examples of non-violent can actually work, while holding a sign in a park doesn’t do anything.
Agree. But also, holding a sign in a park with 20 other people that you coordinated with is not nothing. It’s community building and solidarity, which are both essential.
We’re at that point and yet has Trump been impeached for denying due process and trying to create a process with ice to deport people without a trial to a foreign prison for life? Or for blatantly ignoring orders from federal courts and the Supreme Court?
Until Trump is in prison or tried for his crimes this article doesn’t sway my opinion at all. Fact is too many loopholes exist in the rule of law in the usa. Only way to fix it is creating a new government with a new constitution. The executive branch as it is has way too much power consolidated. The current form of government cant go on as it is. Especially because of how much money and bribery is now involved.
I dont see this being resolved peacefully. Fascists never go peacefully. NEVER
Name one non-violent protest that changed the material conditions of those protesting, I’ll wait.
The Velvet Revolution.
Pick up a rifle and do something then.
You guys who want violence are chomping at the bit for someone else to fucking do something and yet you do nothing.
The ‘far left’ in this country are a bunch of fucking pussies who do nothing but complain on the internet.
Can’t answer my question. I’m not surprised.
Liberals never live in reality that is why they allow fascism to happen.
Looks like you are the one being violent with your rhetoric.
Sure thing dude. Whatever you say.
Typical answer that I expected from a liberal like you. You people give up so easily. Is there any fight among liberals at all?
Good luck with your pacifism when they are killing wholesale. Do you like humanity? Maybe defend it against evil once and a while.
I don’t see you pulling triggers, keyboard commando.
Vote harder! Interpretative dance and ask nicely.
That’s how real change happens.And look at this fed (and my answer):
https://lemmy.world/post/31384291/17679569Could it be they are scared of actual change and started a social media campaign?
Coincidentally also the same message from Bernie the sheepdog.
https://x.com/BernieSanders/status/1932148252800905415
American Revolution. French Revolution. Iranian Revolution.
Just a few very violent, and successful, revolutions.
I don’t really know if I’d consider the French revolution very succesful, considering the fact that the Bourbon dynasty was restored after only 16 years.
If we allow them to make us violent, they will crush us with police/military force. It’s already happening. Do NOT get baited into killing your own insurgency.
The guy who shot Hortman had “no kings” posters in his car. He was trying to incite violence so the police would have an excuse to shoot protestors. Don’t let these people bait you.
Have you seen the videos of the No Kings demonstrations around the country? They were enormous! Not only were they far larger than I expected, they were MANY times larger than I expected.
The MAGA Nazis can try to suppress those crowds, but no matter what the outcome, they will lose. This isn’t pre-Internet Tiananmen Square, where the government can simply deny it happened. The entire planet will know.
If they fire on American protesters, no matter the justification, the MAGA Nazis government will make enemies of every Democratic nation in the world.
I agree, and I think that OP is trying to say, non-violence such as the no kings protests will be more effective than bloodshed
I have to say, the size of the No Kings crowds truly surprised me. I knew they’d be big, but these were HUGE!
HitlerPig is obsessed by ratings, polls, popularity, etc. The size of those crowds, in EVERY major city in America, must have scared the bejeezus out of him. The problem with that is that a shallow thinker like him can only conceive of a few responses, and ferocious violence is probably the first option that comes to his empty mind.
That’s right! And, adhering to that strategy would be falling right into his hands. Which is what OP is saying.
General strikes accomplish a fuck of a lot more in a shorter amount of time. When the owners of the administration can’t get their poptarts to the stores to be sold, the bank calls their loans and shit gets real.
Right after Covid ended, the nurses in the NYC hospitals decided that after being so heroic for over a year, they deserved raises, and some other benefits. The hospitals flat-out refused anything.
The nurses went on strike. Within 72 hours, every single one of their demands was met, including a fat raise.
Unions and strikes work.
Yeah, too many people keep acting like “hold up a sign” and “start shooting” are the only two political actions possible. There is a vast array of disruptions and threats to the status quo that do not require violence.
Cool, you organize one of those, then. Ill wait.
my fucking ass 👅🥾
Bolsheviks, Stonewall riots, suffragettes, all famously peaceful movements that got their rights by staying on their knees and asking nicely.
Those are successful, yes. But then you have Arbenz’s Guatamala and the FARC in Columbia and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka and democratic revolts in Hong Kong and Kashmir and the French Revolution and the Polish Resistance and the failures of socialist revolts across Africa and the Middle East.
I think part of the problem is how we define “successful”. Because it’s easy to see how the Spanish Anarchists failed to defeat Franco. Meanwhile, we largely consider the Civil Rights Era in the United States a success, despite many of its leaders being assassinated and its efforts quashed and undo under the Nixon/Reagan Era.
Militant insurgencies end when they are crushed by police/military. Peaceful protests don’t “fail” nearly so dramatically, they just fade away.
Psst, just a friendly reminder: it’s Colombia with two O’s and no U :) just a little pet peeve of mine.
democratic revolts in Hong Kong LOL you mean the CIA paid failed attempt at destabilisation?
Hong Kong residents have been demanding democratic reforms since British colonial days. A shame Americans only seem to care when protesters start waving MAGA flags. But this has been a failed campaign going on 50 years easy.
Y’all are out in full force today, huh
Countering the astroturfed “take it up the ass and do nothing useful campaign”? Why would anyone do that?
well where the hell could I go
Outside and touch grass? Where I am it’s beautiful and sunny out. Go for a run.
Outside and touch grass?
Wait till this guy finds out about cell phones
How does the boot taste?
1 to 100 with a lot of you isn’t it?
How about just a healthy life balance?
I don’t think boot counts as 1 of your 5 a day honestly
I just came indoors
To be fair it would be illegal to do so outdoors.
literally 1984 😔
Let me know what all the peaceful protests on climate change did leading up to and since the Paris Agreement.
Civil disobedience, including violent action, absolutely has a place in changing the policy of the state.
Sure, a poor uneducated place.
Anyone who makes peaceful revolution impossible makes violent revolution inevitable.
Lmao I love that people still reply to you when you’re name is trollception.
Well done.
List all the regimes that weren’t brought down by peaceful protests and singing kumbaya. No worries we will wait.
Czechoslovakia’s Velvet Revolution was one instance, assuming you squint and ignore all the NATO soft power involved.
The 2018 and 2024 Armenian Revolutions also technically qualify. Although, the fact that they had two in six years raises questions of their effectiveness.
Um, you sure you don’t mean all the regimes that “were” brought down by peaceful protests and singing kumbaya? Either way I really don’t have the desire or time to look any of that up for you.
Ah, so you agree there IS a place though.
