So, lets say we get to August or some summer month, and 4,000,000 people are protesting right out front the white house.
Do they send in the tanks? Do they kill 1,000,000 people? Would republican civilians see empathy for the dead americans who were democrats? Or would it unite the nation like 9/11 did, except this time against the government?
In 1970, the National Guard opened fire on a crowd of peaceful, unarmed students, killing four and wounding nine more. A Gallup poll conducted a week after the shooting found that 58% of Americans blamed the students for the massacre, with only 11% blaming the guardsmen. Many students who were present at the massacre were shunned by their own families, some were even disowned, and some were told that even more students should have been killed to teach them a lesson.
The students, for their part, couldn’t even comprehend what was happening at first. Many of them thought the soldiers’ weapons were loaded with blanks, that they were just trying to intimidate them. After the massacre, many of the students wanted to reassemble and continue peacefully demonstrating, in defiance of the guard. One of the professors convinced them to disperse, by shouting at them that all of them would be killed.
How was it possible for the public to see it that way? Because of how the media spun it. Even before the massacre, they were saying that the protests were full of “outside agitators” and claiming that they had been doing things like lacing the water supply with LSD. Of course, it eventually “came out” that these claims were complete bullshit based on nothing. So, once the moment had passed, they quietly printed retractions.
All that shit still happens today. It happens every single time a cop murders someone, whether it’s Renee Good or George Floyd. The right wingers immediately start digging for any possible way to spin it and if they can’t then they simply lie, and if the lie falls apart it doesn’t matter, by that point people will have forgotten and moved on.
Yes they will kill you. They’ll put people down like dogs and worry about how to justify it later. People want to believe the world is just, and that often means blaming the victim. They’ll do it and they’ll get away with it too.
Buy a gun.
Lol buying a gun won’t fix anything. You need to train with it and connect with other people who know how to use guns (and who can get other resources for you) or well, Luigi Mangione can tell you the other option.
Just consuming gun won’t fix anything.
My question is, why do authoritarians try so hard to disarm a populace then? It seems every person thinks we’ll have a large formation of troops fighting it out and not turn this into any number of guerilla resistance movements against the USA and other countries throughout time.
There’s 1.5 guns per person in the USA, but we also have the largest prison population per capita in the world.
I can’t name an authoritarian that started by disarming people. My guess would be there comes a point where disarming the populace happens in authoritarian process as part of “disarming the enemy”. When the enemy is the public, you disarm all of them.
So succesful authoritarians eventually just reach the point where the public is the enemy. They either get there by killing people or imprisoning them or starving them.
In the US they’re making housing unaffordable. You sell your gun to pay rent, problem solved for the wealthy. There’s much higher death rates for homeless people. There have been a number of stats that say the US has similar death rates to societies in civil wars.
If guns were used as a solution I think we’d see more sherriffs and deputies being shot during evictions.
How do you train with a gun if you don’t have one?
You can get a gun without buying it. Luigi mangione allegedly bought about half a gun
Personally, I would rather not walk around with an object that would land me in prison if it were discovered.
Where I live first infraction for a ghost gun is a fine so prison seems a bit dramatic.
Not everyone lives where you live. If I’m giving advice on the internet, where people live in many different locales, I think “buy a gun” is better advice than “3D print a gun.” Especially considering that 3D printed guns require more technical knowledge to put together and there’s potential for misfires or even injuries if you don’t know what you’re doing. Not to mention the cost of the 3D printer in the first place.
You want to go that route, by all means, knock yourself out. But it feels like you’re picking a pointless fight over this.
I don’t think playing right into the arms industry’s bosom is good advice unless you’re serious about actually training and organizing around using a gun.
Owning a gun doesn’t fix anything, hell using a gun doesn’t fix anything. There’s no guarantee when/if shit gets stupid you’ll even be able to get enough ammo for the thing (let alone the issues with caching a large amount of ammo).
The only way guns are going to matter in a realistic sense is if people are afraid to shoot you because they’ll get shot. If there’s actually some kind of civil war you’ll get guns an ammo from the army.
I’ve always just gone to the range with my friends who have guns. I’m not going to give the gun industry here a dime they don’t need.
“The last rope they sell us will be the one we hang them with.” I don’t like the idea of giving money to war profiteers any more than you do, but it is an unfortunate necessity.
Um… yes. That’s the point?
From what army? What are you talking about?
Is your plan to rely on the US government to arm the proletariat?
That was partially just a result of the NG having rifles but not the less than lethal tear gas and stuff now.
https://youtu.be/MN_9VqfVQ9c
You had me right up to the last word.
That nonviolent shit will get you killed.
Tell that to Alex Pretti
LOL. Being armed is not a violent act.
The guy who got killed doing nonviolent shit?
Are you suggesting he should have used the gun that he had on him?
Yes, there’s a chance he’d still be alive today if he did so, and there’d be at least one fewer fascist.
There’s a chance he would have died in a hail of gunfire, and probably gotten a lot of innocent bystanders killed as well, and a certainty that if he had survived, he would have gone to jail for the rest of his life. I don’t know what the solution is to the problems my country is facing right now, but I know for a fact that what you’re suggesting is not the solution.
He did die in a hail of gunfire.
Do you support complete disarmament of the police and military? Or is it only with non-state actors that this concern about missed shots outweighs everything else?
The solution is working class organizing, with well-trained and disciplined people’s millitias. Pacifism gets people killed, as does adventurism. The only way out of the death spiral is revolution.
Yes
I’m suggesting that if it were me, and I was gonna go down either way, I’d rather die knowing that I helped rid the world of at least one of those rat bastards.
Pretti’s death may have turned the tide. If he had fired his weapon or even unholstered it, that would not be true.
I see we’ve got a badass on our hands.
No? I am under no illusions that I can stop the fascists from killing me if they want to. If five armed men kick down my door, I’m not stopping them. But I might be able to take one of them down, if I get lucky. That is, you know, how guns work. It doesn’t take badassery to pull a trigger.
Everyone calls it the Kent State shootings but all the shootings actually happened on the campus and none in the actual university.
Campus is the grounds and buildings of a university or college. If it’s on the campus it’s in the university.
It’s a sarcastic reference to communists correctly pointing out that the deaths on June 4th, 1989 were in and around Beijing, not on Tian’anmen square itself. It’s a comment intentionally undermining how communists are dispelling Red Scare mythos.
They weren’t being sarcastic, meaningless semantics is their MO
Fair enough.
No, what the hell, don’t buy a gun for that reason. That will only escalate the violence. And there’s only so far that you can escalate as a civilian until they roll out the tanks, and your guns can’t do shit against tanks.
You need power in numbers. That’s how you can build a proper resistance.
Ukraine has shown that Armour is heavily vulnerable. And tanks are too heavy for the road anyway, it would be wheeled vehicles only.
At some point that doesn’t matter.
Downvoters, look what coincidentally happened some months ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_250th_Anniversary_Parade
There exist special addons to make tanks less destructive for roads.
That peaceful bullshit only benefits the oligarchy. There’s not a single right you have that wasn’t won via violence.
Same sex marriage. Transgender rights. We are in a different age, wars are fought by information now. We are fighting the current war for America by information now. Not by bullets. I am all about Luigis rising up but that’s a lot different than “everyone grab semi and hope for the best.” This isn’t 1776.
You think gay rights came without violence? One of the first well documented events leading to where we are right now was called the Stonewall Riots
The fight for gay rights STARTED with a riot. Same sex marriage came through the courts, decades later. In a new age. I was there, I was fighting for it. There was no violence when SSM and trans rights were brought about.
Edit: To further my point, what DID move the needle was public support for SSM and trans rights, which happened through EDUCATION, which is INFORMATION. When public support got there, SCOTUS granted the right, and eventually legislatures followed. A lot of organizations did a lot of work educating the public, which is the very work I did in the third state that got SSM. To act like the Stonewall riot directly lead to SSM is absurd.
Could make you wonder how much power the elite had to shed for those.
Seems to be they are escalating the violence with or without us.
Except they can’t escalate nearly as quickly if they don’t have an excuse. They’ve been wanting to escalate way further than they have, but everytime they tried to paint protestors/… as violent mobs, reality betrayed them. So far that they’re somewhat pulling back. That didn’t happen because someone shot at ICE, quite the opposite.
They’re pulling back? Let’s see what happens in Springfield because last I checked, they were escalating even before Good died. I’m not convinced at all they are slowing down because people aren’t violent, not at all. I think they aren’t escalating as fast as they want because they’re worried people will turn violent and no jury would convict someone taking down an ice officer.
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You need numbers and you need those numbers to have guns. They are not stopping, they do not care about right or wrong, and there is no telling how far they’re going to go. Without the threat of armed resistance, what is stopping them from open massacres?
Guns will not keep you safe, granted. But not having a gun obviously won’t keep you safe either. Think about what you’re saying, you’re relying on the fascists to act in good faith, out of the kindness of their hearts. That’s nonsense.
Nonviolence is a tactic, it can be an effective tactic, but it is only a tactic. If conditions reach a point where that tactic is not applicable or effective, then it will be time to change tactics. What’s the plan if they start firing up the gas chambers?
CIA would like to present you Simple Sabotage Field Manual solving all your needs in that department.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Sabotage_Field_Manual
You’re a goddamn coward and you deserve to however they treat you. But let’s be honest, you won’t leave the “safety” of your home till they drag you out of it. You’re just going to sit on your ass and criticize those of us who do fight. Broke wristed pacifist, fuck you.
Government has tens of thousands of troops and RPGs and tanks and riot gear and bulletproof shields and chemical warfare and fucking nuclear weapons but Lemmy among others are convinced arming up will save us somehow. It’s proof that the gun lobby has done their job.