Whenever I hear somebody moving to a Macbook and make any sort of complaint onkine, lots of people unhelpfully tell you to buy a $1000+ iPhone and that will solve all your problems, or when an Android user is “switching to iPhone”, a similar thing happens with “just use a Mac”. Why the hell do you need to purchase all the expensive devices to just use one?
Most of the time, using an iPhone, Mac, etc., does not “just work”. Maybe the UI is simply not very usable (not just Liquid Glass, see MacOS’s terrible implementation of a settings app, iOS not having an option to combine the quick settings and notifications), third-party devices (headphones, chargers, tablets, etc.) simply do not work well (no, “get the iDevice” is not helpful!), iOS having the most ass file management that may as well not exist, all the different bugs poking around everywhere (through my own experiences with iOS* and my friend’s with MacOS), etc. “Give more money to Apple to fix it” is not good advice and does not help to solve anything.
Why is it that, when Apple has inherently worse hardware, everybody seems to put up with it? On their Macs, you have 60 Hz LCD displays on a $1000+ laptop, no good ports selection unless you spend thousands more, ridiculously priced memory and storage upgrades that would be a death sentence to any other company, very shallow key travel that feels terrible to type on compared to other options, etc. As for their iPads, you have similarly not so great displays on a relatively high end tablet unless you spend thousands on a tablet with an uber-fancy M5 chip (why would anyone need that???), a keyboard case that is so expensive despite feeling like a cheap membrane keyboard you got on Aliexpress and being so top-heavy, etc. Who in their right mind would purchase a $550 set of headphones made of ridiculously heavy metal, with uncomfortable cushions, terrible battery life, mid ANC, and several year old innards?
How has Apple manipulated so many people with their marketing? I don’t really see anything quite like it in other product segments. What is the secret apple sauce?
*note that I currently run an Android phone, but I have my issues with them too that I won’t get into. My particular device is very bloated and incredibly annoying to work with sometimes, but it’s what I’ve got. On my laptop I happily run Linux, where the device simply listens to me which is a nice change of pace
edit: Actually, no, I think something similar occurs with Nintendo (in video games) and Disney (for films)
I think you need to understand how powerful Apple’s marketing is, especially in the US. People just like a system that is simple and just works. Their use cases are limited. They don’t want to spend time to figure out which distro to install or which instance to join, they just want to start their browser and go on twitter.
I will disagree with your statement on iPad displays. The iPad has been one of the only viable tablet out there for graphic artists. The pencil is great, the color accuracy and consistency between Apple devices is excellent, the device is just functional for that type of workflow. Now if only it were repairable and not subject to planned obsolescence…
As far as laptops go, exactly which company is producing a competitive product to Macs? Like at this point it’s a no brainer, get a cheap Mac for an average user and they get better hardware and don’t have to deal with how bad Windows has become. I’ve even switched grandma over to one after her PC died.
I run Linux for my own stuff but given a choice between a mac or windows for work I’ll take the Mac every time. Even the cheapest Mac beats the typical business laptops. Good screen. Touchpad that doesn’t utterly suck. Better performance.
The reasons you hate these things are the reasons other people love them.
Other people are not you. They have different preferences and values. They like what you hate.
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Apple has always designed things for people who want to do things without having to be a technologist. For which I will always credit them, massively.
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Apple has always designed things to work together seamlessly. Again, massive kudos, even though I condemn their using this to lock people in.
Then there’s Job’s cult of personality, marketing Apple as for people who are better than the plebes.
I’ve never been a fan of Apple as a company, but I’ve always given massive credit for the good ideas behind making things that just work.
Or creating the myth it just works. As someone that supports corporate macs this is definitely a myth.
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I can answer this from the perspective of someone who, until 18 months ago, was all-in on Apple stuff.
The short answer is: As long as all of your devices are reasonably new and running the latest software, they’re all really good at talking to each other. Got a Mac and an iPad? Great, you can use Universal Control to operate the iPad using your Mac’s keyboard and mouse/trackpad. And that is a genuinely useful technology. Got something on your phone that you want to share with your partner on the TV? AirPlay it across to Apple TV. And so, and so forth.
Thing is, once you’re in that situation, you’re kinda stuck. If your Mac ages out of OS feature support, the only option is to replace the Mac if you want it to match the interconnectivity features of your new iPhone. So the answer in that situation is to buy a new Mac, one that supports the new features available in the newest OS. At that point, your options are to either shell out £1000+ on a new Mac, or completely change your workflow to one that can be achieved using open source or paid alternatives. The vast majority of people have neither the time nor the inclination to set up things like that, so they factor in the cost of a new computer, phone, or iPad every few years.
But Apple’s real secret sauce is that - and judging by the attitude you’re swinging around in your post, OP, you’re not going to like this - they make REALLY good hardware.
My primary computer is still a 15" M2 MacBook Air. That thing is super thin, super light, completely silent to use and has never given me a moment’s trouble in three years that I didn’t somehow inflict on myself. Using Crossover, I can play Windows games on it just as easily as using Steam/Proton on my Linux PC. I can play RDR2 on my fanless ARM laptop and get a perfectly fine 30fps when I’m not at home. The battery is three years old but still gives me a full day of use. Sure, it only has two ports, but both of them are Thunderbolt 4, and it has a dedicated Magsafe charging port.
I still have my 2011 MacBook Pro at home. It’s currently running Debian and is still rock solid. Looking a little rough around the edges these days, but still a perfectly usable computer - that’s 15 years old.
Apple has inherently worse hardware
This just isn’t true. At all. The build quality of their hardware is the best in the business.
Sure, they effectively paywall things like 120hz screens to the higher end Pro models, but they have enough market research telling them that people who buy a mid range iPhone don’t care about refresh rates, or even know what they are. Why spend money on a QoL upgrade that the user will never notice?
But yeah, their cost for memory and storage is downright criminal, and always has been. The only thing that’s changed in recent(ish) years is that now everything is soldered or proprietary, they’ve made it effectively impossible to upgrade it yourself at a far, far lower cost. And that’s incredibly shitty.
These days I’m primarily a Linux user. My work PC is Kubuntu, my home server Debian, my gaming PC CachyOS. None of those machines are as easy to use as my Macbook running macOS 15. They can (theoretically) achieve more, but in the 2 years I’ve been using Linux I’ve had to teach myself how to use a command line; something I very, very rarely needed to when I just used macOS alone.
But I reached a point where I got sick of Apple’s bullshit, their performative stance on progressive politics that didn’t match the image of Tim Apple licking Trump’s ring. So I traded in my iPhone 13 mini for a Pixel 9 onto which I immediately installed GrapheneOS. That one act completely broke the spell of the interconnected nature of Apple products for me. I still have an iPad mini, but 90% of its use is as a peripheral for my MacBook, where it does still have genuine utility.
So yeah, Apple don’t do anything particularly groundbreaking, they just make good hardware running software that’s mostly good and useful. People, it may shock you to learn, generally prefer to use devices that don’t need much tinkering to keep them running.
They no longer make really good hardware.
Their hardware has been better relative to the competition than ever in the ARM era. The M5 is a monster. I just wish I could afford one with plenty of RAM and could run Linux on it.
Yeah, my only wish for my M2 is that Asahi is up to 100% by the time Apple pull the support for it. It’s close. Damn close. But still far enough away that it feels like a compromise.
I’m a nearly everything apple user. It started with a macbook air that I was gifted. It was an incredibly stable laptop that basically just always worked. I had no troubles doing things like finding the printers in my department or the library (something which was stupid frustrating with my prior laptop). I had that laptop without any other apple products for 7-8 years.
The iPhone started my move into everything else. I used to have a fit bit but when the battery died, I got the apple watch because it was so much easier to connect/keep connected. I got airpods for the same reason.
I want stuff that works the way I expect it to work and works all the time. Everything I’ve had is very stable.
Honestly, this has been my experience too. I’m not an all in Apple user, but I have had a few devices over the years and for the every day user, it’s a pretty easy experience.
I started with the old Apple router. That thing ran like a champ and I was really sad when they got rid of it. It was what made my gamer buddy more open to Apple products, games ran great on that thing. I didn’t purchase another Apple product for a few years. I used to talk so much shit about Apple and I was hopeful that the Microsoft Zune would be the iPod killer. It wasn’t, but I still have my 2 Zunes.
I had an original Motorola Droid with the flip out keyboard (something I truly miss). But the OS was garbage and I constantly had issues. Eventually, I purchased my first iPhone off a friend for about $50. I think it was a 6 or something. More to help friend out than me needing a new phone, it was my chance to try an iPhone for cheap. It was a significant upgrade to my previous phones.
After that, I have kept with iPhones because upgrading to a new system is extremely simple. Previously, you had to pay to transfer info from one device to the next, it could be done at home but it was a lot harder. With the iPhone, I literally just log in and everything is there. Yes, I save things to the cloud. Yes, I understand the problems it has, but I accept that. Now, I have an iPhone 13 that I will probably be able to get another 2-3 years out of. I don’t ever buy the Pro because it’s more than I need, I usually get the regular with more on device storage when I upgrade. I also have an AppleTV because I feel it’s one of the better plug in TV devices and it links seamlessly to my iPhone.
For me (and probably the vast majority of Apple device users) “it just works” is enough to keep me happy. I don’t need all of the customization that Android provides, but I’m so glad it’s an option for people. I have stability, user ease, and an ecosystem that, while it may be closed, it’s simple and doesn’t really have any issues. I almost never experience the issues that most people complain about with Apple products.
I’m still all in on PC though, I don’t need a Mac because it’s too expensive for what I do on my computer, which is mostly playing World of Warcraft. I still use Windows because I don’t do much with customization so many of the issues people have with Windows, I have never experienced. I’d like to move to a Linux system, but when I tried last year, I couldn’t get Warcraft running, so I switched back to Windows. I will likely wait until I get a new PC before I try again. With computers, most people’s options are Mac or Windows because that’s what is at the store. Linux isn’t typically sold installed on a device (which I wish it was) and a lot of people just want to open the box, start it up, and go.
I wanted to add that I’ve been everywhere in laptop operating systems. The computer that I used before the first macbook was running Mint. I use a Windows laptop for work. I’ve had 2 or 3 major problems with my macs. I’ve have 3 major problems with my windows machine so far this year (and a dozen other smaller issues).
Yeah, I’ve had a few issues here and there across all of my devices, but most can be fixed with a restart. I’m literally the only person at work who does not have constant problems with my work Windows laptop. But I’m also the only person who shuts it down every day at the end of my shift and goes out of my way to check for updates.
I get why folks who are more involved in their devices or prefer more customization may not like Apple products, but a lot of people just see them as a device to connect to the internet or write papers etc. and that’s about it. Folks like Apple because it works for them.
I’m really happy there are options for people to have a device that suits their needs.
One of the funniest essays I ever read was by porn actress Bobbi Starr. It was about porn’s addiction to Apple products. Someone copied it from an issue of FOX Magazine.
The idea was that a girl could shoot, edit, and distribute all her own stuff on Apple devices.
Why is it that, when Apple has inherently worse hardware
Uhm … no? They have some of the best hardware, it’s just expensive.
Yup. I’m no fan of Apple, but I like to be honest about my criticisms. And hardware quality is not one of them.
They have some of the best hardware, it’s just expensive.
And that’s the problem. Unless you spend unreasonable amounts of money, you don’t get a display that is similar in class to their competitors, the I/O, the keyboard, etc.
And in the case of their over-ear headphones, their hardware is poor while still being expensive!
I don’t see the issue with a 60 Hz display, you’re not getting one for gaming. They have thunderbolt 4 ports, which is all you need and their keyboards are just fine. Some people prefer shallow key travel.
Not sure about their peripherals as I don’t use them, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with their laptops other than being a bit more pricey.
I don’t see the issue with a 60 Hz display, you’re not getting one for gaming.
But the devices don’t exist in a bubble. Laptops that cost much less get 90 or 120 Hz displays, and similarly priced options get OLED and touch support!
They have thunderbolt 4 ports, which is all you need
Until you need to connect your laptop to an HDMI display and don’t happen to have the required dongle that is sold separately. Or when you have a USB(-A) flash drive, you need a dongle too.
Both of these cases are very common for all groups of people, particularly in educational settings.
Some people prefer shallow key travel.
Fair point actually
but there is absolutely nothing wrong with their laptops other than being a bit more pricey.
Again, that’s the issue.
But the devices don’t exist in a bubble. Laptops that cost much less get 90 or 120 Hz displays, and similarly priced options get OLED and touch support!
Ok, so some cheaper laptops have a useless advantage over macbooks. I don’t care. If I could pay one extra doller to get a macbook with a 120 Hz display, I’d save the dollar.
Until you need to connect your laptop to an HDMI display and don’t happen to have the required dongle that is sold separately.
That’s a feature! Dongles are great. You can connect dozens of peripheral by plugging in a single cable. I wish they would have stuck to that concept instead of re-introducing obsolete ports on their recent models. 4 TB ports + headphone jack was perfect!
Again, that’s the issue.
But why? No one is forcing you to buy their products if you don’t think they are worth the price. But a lot of people do and we didn’t need to be “tricked”.
Did you just claim that not having ports is a feature? Lol
If you weren’t being facetious about that, I think you might’ve had too much of that Apple Kool-Aid.
…which is actually probably a flavour of Kool-Aid, lmao
I think your knowledge is a bit dated? MacBook Pros have had HDMI ports since the M1 release in 2021.
Yes, not having legacy ports taking up space is a feature.
I think you might’ve had too much of that Apple Kool-Aid.
Repeating tropes sure is great if you don’t have arguments.
I’ve watched enough old Louis Rossmann videos to know their products are garbage. They might have good CPU but rest is designed and put together like a fresh turd
Are those videos around the 2016-2019 MacBooks? Because yeah, Apple massively dropped a bollock with those things.
But I’m at a point where I’m genuinely pondering whether a fully-specced 2015 MacBook Pro running Linux might be a great replacement for the M2 MacBook Air I currently use, once it dies on me, or Apple drop support (whichever comes first (which will be the dropped support, guaranteed)). I said in another comment on here that I still have a 2011 MacBook Pro at home, running Debian, still trucking along as well as the day I bought it. My home server is a 2014 Mac mini (also running Debian) that’s my Jellyfin/Navidrome/Grimmory/Lidarr/QBittorrent server, all with just 8gb of soldered RAM, drawing very little power while doing it.
Apple have many, many problems, but the build quality of their hardware ain’t one.
Are those videos around the 2016-2019 MacBooks?
Yep, exactly that period. Repair vids of these MacBooks were how Louis grew into big well known youtuber with millions of views at some point.
It may be hard to believe, but some people actually buy apple products because they like them.
Personally, I don’t get why the solution to many of the issues people experience with Apple devices is to buy another one.
Yes, this is only a subset of people and the Internet shows you the worst of them, but I still find it a little hard to believe somebody reasonably suggests to purchases another device that costs so much!
Personally, I don’t get why the solution to many of the issues people experience with Apple devices is to buy another one.
I’m not really familiar with this. My wife uses a macbook. She’s had it for 6 years and I can’t recall any real issues with it.
Just from my personal experiences when I was using an iPhone several years ago, as well as whatI have seen on the Internet
They dont like them in any meaningful way, they are shiny, they are used to them and everyone they know has one. That is the size of it.
To re-phrase for the cheap seats people are willing to pay for familiarity and ease of use within a contained and overwatched environment. This demographic will make the transition to AI guardianship with barely a blip on the resistance scale. I am not being derogatory, it is probably the smart move.
It would probably be easier to answer the intent behind the question, if the question itself wasn’t embellished with wild exaggeration.
They have an interconnected proprietary ecosystem. This is simultaneously one of their biggest strengths and biggest weaknesses.
People love to feel superior and having blue text bubbles does that. Not green text bubbles (yuck) but blue text bubbles. It was that easy! /s
My text bubbles are blue yet I’m on Android.
So use Textra and change it.
“How has capitalism tricked the masses into vapid consumerism?”
That’s overly simplistic.
And I’ve disliked Apple products since the first Mac, though I could appreciate their intent.
I think there are many reasons, some of them are:
- Apple has a very straightforward design that is instantly recognizable. People love that, it’s the same people who want to have a “great unboxing experience”
- They combine hardware and software - it is not Apple vs Android but Apple vs Samsung, Motorola, Sony and whatever; on the mobile and desktop market there is so much crappy hardware. Apple users just buy the BigMac they already know, even if there are much better burgers around
- you always never get pure Android, it is bloated by phone manufactures. You have the Samsung app store and the xiaomi app security checker and other bloat.
- Apple knows marketing very well, they tricked their customers into thinking apple cares about privacy. If you only have the Google surveillance mother ship as an alternative, they rather choose the product that promises to care about their data
- Windows is a huge pile of crap. It is such a frustrating and bad OS that has annoyed people for decades. Yes there is Linux, but it usually does not come preinstalled
- apple users join a cult when they buy Apple products. It is very important for people to “be different” or to “be smarter”
- by paying a higher price, people have the feeling of buying “premium” (which by itself is a marketing word)
I could go on and on and on. I have never used an apple product in my life and am a Linux FOSS enthusiast by the way. But I think it is pretty east to understand.
you always never get pure Android, it is bloated by phone manufactures. You have the Samsung app store and the xiaomi app security checker and other bloat.
That is true, my specific device has a pretty bloated ROM that doesn’t listen to me at all! Whenever I install an app through F-Droid / Obtainium / Aurora Store / etc., it does a “security check” that always fails (what’s the point then?) and tells me not to install this app, despite having given the install unknown apps permission already! And whenever there’s an internet problem, the phone tells me to disable private DNS (I’m using NextDNS), and there’s no option to disable that. The phone also has a whitelist for SMS messaging apps, meaning I have to choose between the stock app and Google Messages, which isn’t great.
Most of the initial advertising and such can be disabled though, and with Android I can use a custom launcher (Kvaesitso) that feels infinitely better than both the stock launcher and whatever iOS uses! And I can actually access the files through USB like a sane person, which is way better than the delicate dance with iTunes that Apple required!
If I ever get another device, I would definitely go with one that supports something like LineageOS or GrapheneOS (maybe CalyxOS if they come back), or perhaps mobile Linux will be strong by then? Who knows.
Windows is a huge pile of crap
Indeed, even if somebody was oblivious to how privacy invasive Windows is, the OS is annoying nowadays and is too bloated to run on lower end devices. If only a large manufacturer pushed Linux on the desktop as an option for a reduced cost (currently it’s just Valve, Lenovo on some of their business class devices, and smaller manufacturers like Framework and System76). Imagine if Dell, Asus, etc. had the guts to say screw you Microsoft, and they developed their own spin of Linux for their own hardware that ran better, that would be neat. Unfortunately, money. It seems like MS is currently one of the main drivers for Mac adoption…
Apple has a very straightforward design that is instantly recognizable. People love that
People like knowing what they are expecting, they don’t like surprises. I think this makes sense, given that Apple has been doing a similar design ethos of metal and glass for ages now (even in product categories where it isn’t all that great in, like their headphones and headset).
by paying a higher price, people have the feeling of buying “premium”
Perhaps given rising prices for everything now, more people will become price conscious? Dunno really
Apple isn’t a brand. It’s a cult. They don’t have to compete with actual market - they just need to build stuff that justifies cultists.
How it started? From Steve Jobs. After he departured from Apple it went into slow death until he went back and make iPod and then iPhone. Cult of personality. It works in US for some reason. Same with Elon Musk, really. And with Trump, and bunch of other public figures.
Apple actually learned their lesson, and after Jobs was gone, they targeted their marketing to shift public worship from him to the brand.
Their products are shit gimmicky pretty looking overpriced garbage that have few redeeming qualities (like iPhone camera which is really good actually) but otherwise they don’t compete with the general market.
This just sounds like you don’t understand why people like apple products and are tying to cope with it. Read the other replies in this thread if you’re interested in expanding your understanding.
like iPhone camera which is really good actually
All modern phones (even the cheap ones nowadays) produce excellent photos, so iPhones aren’t isolated in this respect. And many equivalently priced options have far superior camera hardware (and arguably software processing too, their colours usually look more pleasing than the iPhones).
produce excellent photos
Photos, yes, I agree 100% but videos is a bit different thing. I know professionals who use iPhone for making short vids for TikTok and instagram specifically because video quality is good, even with subpar light setup.
That is something I’ve heard of, and I think it’s because Apple has more resources to focus on more professional video codecs and such (which others may not bother with due to it being good enough for most people already)
Samsungs produce shit photos because the firmware is appalling.
