While us poor saps blame each other and tell the other to use paper straws.
This is why I’m honestly done taking any blame for the environment. I can conserve and become the Greta Thumberg of environmental causes and a billionaire will undo my work with one weekend getaway trip.
You want to help the environment? Start building gallows for billionaires
Just no. Join an org, get involved, learn to organize. During the French revolution the guillotine didn’t overthrow the aristocracy, they were mostly used on other peasants. What actually worked, was taking their shit.
You are right to want justice, but building gallows is what they will do, its their twisted justice. “When education isn’t liberating it is the dream of the oppressed to become the oppressor.” We have the ability together, although difficult, to create a more just world. Destroying the material basis for their class, the ownership of the means of production, is the only thing that will can make this possible.
Join an org, salt a union, get involved. Its messaging like this that makes the left completely unpalatable. Wanting justice is good, but we can only have it if we come together as a class to defeat the rich as a class.
Time to take it to the next stage. “Building gallows” won’t do shit, might as well eat pudding about it. There is only one thing that has ever worked against them, and that is organization and withholding our labor power. In 1935, after the national strike wave that brought the US to its knees, we got our new deal. Next time, there will be no deal. We are taking the power and we will never give it back. And we will use it to build a better world.
So what orgs are out there building gallows that we can join?
Because this isn’t going to be fixed without bloodshed and I’m sick of wasting my energy helping treat the symptoms of this system when they just keep getting worse. We need a cure, not just treatment.
I’m not saying pacifism. What is a pacifist going to do when the ruling class uses incredible violence against us? Just like they do every day, with no warning or reason? I’m not a hand-wringing liberal, but mass murder is not a viable option. Violence creates problems that can only be responded to, and solved, with violence. And sometimes, its necessary to defend our selves, our class, our communities. I would recommend a kind of armed nonviolence such as was practiced by the Deacons of Defense and Justice (but don’t believe the liberal distortions, they were tough.) Armed defense, shoot at us and we shoot back. The revolutionary activity must be defended. But violence is a tactic, not a strategy.
There are revolutionary socialist orgs you can join. No one here is advocating for reformism. But an individual using violence or not, can’t affect change. If you actually care to affect change you will get organized somehow. If not then you can complain online, and make sure your perspectives are never heard or boosted by anyone. Seems like a shame to me, I’d rather you were with us.
But if you aren’t organized, you are actually part of the problem, because the default without anyone doing anything, is the billionaires use their violence against us. Sounds like you are tired of being part of the problem, but can’t see any options. Well, I’m telling you, there are options.
What is what you thought? I’ve encountered lots of people who talk tough about violent class war. And they ain’t doing shit.
If you’re serious, buy weapons and start a gay worker militia. You will get a bunch of members pretty quickly, and it will teach you how things actually work when you try to organize against forces that are organized against us.
You’re right, violent means will be necessary. But that’s not the path I’m on, at least not as far as I can tell. If that’s your path, then make it meaningful, get people together and throw your collective weight around. My criticism of your methods will be based on your actual tactics and strategy, but like I said, I support the formation of armed defense militias. But I can’t form them, its not what I’m committed to, and I’d like to keep a worker defense militia separate from the political influence until they are strong enough to set their own agenda.
But I suspect that you can’t think of anything, imagine anything, but total annihilation. After all, its easier to imagine the end of the world than an end to capitalism. So take the easy way out, dream of apocalypse, it is surely coming without all the people locked into toxic spirals of despair, which serves the billionaires. Your hopelessness and impotent threats serve the ruling class. Kill one and there will be a line of people just as depraved and psychotic to replace him.
Or, get off your ass and start a revolution. Put up or shut up. Individual talk is meaningless. Collective action can change history. So if you thought that you are in the first group and I was in the second, then you thought correctly. But I think there’s more to you than that. Call it a difference of opinion.
Im old, im past all that other stuff like protesting and joining groups. It never works or helps. I’ve become a bit of an anarchist in my older years as I realize humans just self sabotage and refuse to change unless they’re forced to. I know that a perfect system is impossible and that getting even a good system is too far from where we are. So you go ahead and organize and waste time and one day you’ll be old and go “i should have built gallows when I was young and didn’t have everything to lose”
Or go ahead and organize and do your thing and be peaceful and positive and pretend that’s all it takes, while some of us want to make them see their own blood and have them run for their lives and know that both sides are necessary. We can both be on the same side but I am done talking and sending letters, all we need is a proper leader to give us the go. I may not be a soldier but I’m a good handy man and can build some structures and human sized spits for the billionaire roast, for whenever you guys wanna catch up and come to the conclusions us older leftists have reached
Nonviolent but measures like unions and strikes do very much work.
I just say that annectotaly but there is probably some study about it.
They are probably considered “violent” or maybe only “agggrssive” behaviour by the capitalist class, because it threatens their income/revenue. Thats enough to make them change.
Completly overthrowing a whole economic system might work but is a big ask. Everyday people can do little things. Like unionizing, standing up to the boss or maybe even stand together with the boss and against the next higher-up.
Second, organizing is not the same as yelling at empty government buildings for 3 hours on a weekend at a protest. That’s mobilizing, not organizing.
Third, all of the anarchists in my city are in orgs and groups, fight cops and engage in mutual aid. You aren’t advocating for anarchism, you are advocating for terrorism. And if you talked like this in one of their meetings they would kick your ass out for being a liability. What has terrorism ever accomplished but make the enemy stronger? That’s why the billionaires funds terrorist orgs, because they want forever war. You aren’t an anarchist. Malatesta was an anarchist, and he said to improve yourself and get organized.
I know dozens of old heads who are organized revolutionaries, and fight like hell on multiple fronts. You don’t sound old and wise, you sound like a 17 year old edgelord. Clueless, naive, edgy for the sake of social media interaction .
The idea that getting organized is somehow toothless reformism is just patently, hilariously false. You say you want to spit roast the billionaires, but you are carrying water for them. You are their bitch.
Juice is advocating for taking power from the privileged elite and returning it to the public at large. That won’t be peaceful. Strikes are not peaceful. They will certainly need you at some point.
This is why I’m honestly done taking any blame for the environment.
Why were you ever “taking blame” for the environment and what does it mean to “stop” doing so?
Serious question, because this sounds like the excuse my hick neighbor used to use for dumping used motor oil directly onto the ground so I wave fingers at this kind of rhetoric.
Just because corporations are the primary offenders, doesn’t mean you don’t have responsibility or accountability for at least the most basic measures. And more so, the accountability for allowing corporations is squarely on us as people who feed them massive amounts of money and then complain there’s no alternatives.
My suggestion for both helping the environment and ending billionaires is the one nobody wants to hear: stop spending so much money. Especially if you live in the EU or America, your money is the most valuable currency in the world, and every time you buy the latest model of iPhone or order Doordash, you’re harming the world and paying for the next CEO’s weekend getaway trip. Every time you pay for the newest game or go watch the latest movie, every time you pay for convenience, you’re feeding the system in a massive way.
It’s far to much to expect any kind of actual “revolution” to take place. We could literally cripple capitalism overnight with a general strike, but nobody wants the inconvenience. So the next best thing is we start hoarding money away from the grips of these liches and undead dragons.
While us poor saps blame each other and tell the other to use paper straws.
This is why I’m honestly done taking any blame for the environment. I can conserve and become the Greta Thumberg of environmental causes and a billionaire will undo my work with one weekend getaway trip.
You want to help the environment? Start building gallows for billionaires
Just no. Join an org, get involved, learn to organize. During the French revolution the guillotine didn’t overthrow the aristocracy, they were mostly used on other peasants. What actually worked, was taking their shit.
You are right to want justice, but building gallows is what they will do, its their twisted justice. “When education isn’t liberating it is the dream of the oppressed to become the oppressor.” We have the ability together, although difficult, to create a more just world. Destroying the material basis for their class, the ownership of the means of production, is the only thing that will can make this possible.
Join an org, salt a union, get involved. Its messaging like this that makes the left completely unpalatable. Wanting justice is good, but we can only have it if we come together as a class to defeat the rich as a class.
Time to take it to the next stage. “Building gallows” won’t do shit, might as well eat pudding about it. There is only one thing that has ever worked against them, and that is organization and withholding our labor power. In 1935, after the national strike wave that brought the US to its knees, we got our new deal. Next time, there will be no deal. We are taking the power and we will never give it back. And we will use it to build a better world.
So what orgs are out there building gallows that we can join?
Because this isn’t going to be fixed without bloodshed and I’m sick of wasting my energy helping treat the symptoms of this system when they just keep getting worse. We need a cure, not just treatment.
I’m not saying pacifism. What is a pacifist going to do when the ruling class uses incredible violence against us? Just like they do every day, with no warning or reason? I’m not a hand-wringing liberal, but mass murder is not a viable option. Violence creates problems that can only be responded to, and solved, with violence. And sometimes, its necessary to defend our selves, our class, our communities. I would recommend a kind of armed nonviolence such as was practiced by the Deacons of Defense and Justice (but don’t believe the liberal distortions, they were tough.) Armed defense, shoot at us and we shoot back. The revolutionary activity must be defended. But violence is a tactic, not a strategy.
There are revolutionary socialist orgs you can join. No one here is advocating for reformism. But an individual using violence or not, can’t affect change. If you actually care to affect change you will get organized somehow. If not then you can complain online, and make sure your perspectives are never heard or boosted by anyone. Seems like a shame to me, I’d rather you were with us.
But if you aren’t organized, you are actually part of the problem, because the default without anyone doing anything, is the billionaires use their violence against us. Sounds like you are tired of being part of the problem, but can’t see any options. Well, I’m telling you, there are options.
Yeah that’s what I thought.
What is what you thought? I’ve encountered lots of people who talk tough about violent class war. And they ain’t doing shit.
If you’re serious, buy weapons and start a gay worker militia. You will get a bunch of members pretty quickly, and it will teach you how things actually work when you try to organize against forces that are organized against us.
You’re right, violent means will be necessary. But that’s not the path I’m on, at least not as far as I can tell. If that’s your path, then make it meaningful, get people together and throw your collective weight around. My criticism of your methods will be based on your actual tactics and strategy, but like I said, I support the formation of armed defense militias. But I can’t form them, its not what I’m committed to, and I’d like to keep a worker defense militia separate from the political influence until they are strong enough to set their own agenda.
But I suspect that you can’t think of anything, imagine anything, but total annihilation. After all, its easier to imagine the end of the world than an end to capitalism. So take the easy way out, dream of apocalypse, it is surely coming without all the people locked into toxic spirals of despair, which serves the billionaires. Your hopelessness and impotent threats serve the ruling class. Kill one and there will be a line of people just as depraved and psychotic to replace him.
Or, get off your ass and start a revolution. Put up or shut up. Individual talk is meaningless. Collective action can change history. So if you thought that you are in the first group and I was in the second, then you thought correctly. But I think there’s more to you than that. Call it a difference of opinion.
Im old, im past all that other stuff like protesting and joining groups. It never works or helps. I’ve become a bit of an anarchist in my older years as I realize humans just self sabotage and refuse to change unless they’re forced to. I know that a perfect system is impossible and that getting even a good system is too far from where we are. So you go ahead and organize and waste time and one day you’ll be old and go “i should have built gallows when I was young and didn’t have everything to lose”
Or go ahead and organize and do your thing and be peaceful and positive and pretend that’s all it takes, while some of us want to make them see their own blood and have them run for their lives and know that both sides are necessary. We can both be on the same side but I am done talking and sending letters, all we need is a proper leader to give us the go. I may not be a soldier but I’m a good handy man and can build some structures and human sized spits for the billionaire roast, for whenever you guys wanna catch up and come to the conclusions us older leftists have reached
Nonviolent but measures like unions and strikes do very much work. I just say that annectotaly but there is probably some study about it.
They are probably considered “violent” or maybe only “agggrssive” behaviour by the capitalist class, because it threatens their income/revenue. Thats enough to make them change.
Completly overthrowing a whole economic system might work but is a big ask. Everyday people can do little things. Like unionizing, standing up to the boss or maybe even stand together with the boss and against the next higher-up.
You’re so full of shit.
First, I’m older than you think.
Second, organizing is not the same as yelling at empty government buildings for 3 hours on a weekend at a protest. That’s mobilizing, not organizing.
Third, all of the anarchists in my city are in orgs and groups, fight cops and engage in mutual aid. You aren’t advocating for anarchism, you are advocating for terrorism. And if you talked like this in one of their meetings they would kick your ass out for being a liability. What has terrorism ever accomplished but make the enemy stronger? That’s why the billionaires funds terrorist orgs, because they want forever war. You aren’t an anarchist. Malatesta was an anarchist, and he said to improve yourself and get organized.
I know dozens of old heads who are organized revolutionaries, and fight like hell on multiple fronts. You don’t sound old and wise, you sound like a 17 year old edgelord. Clueless, naive, edgy for the sake of social media interaction .
The idea that getting organized is somehow toothless reformism is just patently, hilariously false. You say you want to spit roast the billionaires, but you are carrying water for them. You are their bitch.
Do better, join an org, fight for the future
So what you’re saying is, ‘don’t organise, sit around and wait for someone else to start the violence’
Super helpful, well done
Juice is advocating for taking power from the privileged elite and returning it to the public at large. That won’t be peaceful. Strikes are not peaceful. They will certainly need you at some point.
Why were you ever “taking blame” for the environment and what does it mean to “stop” doing so?
Serious question, because this sounds like the excuse my hick neighbor used to use for dumping used motor oil directly onto the ground so I wave fingers at this kind of rhetoric.
Just because corporations are the primary offenders, doesn’t mean you don’t have responsibility or accountability for at least the most basic measures. And more so, the accountability for allowing corporations is squarely on us as people who feed them massive amounts of money and then complain there’s no alternatives.
My suggestion for both helping the environment and ending billionaires is the one nobody wants to hear: stop spending so much money. Especially if you live in the EU or America, your money is the most valuable currency in the world, and every time you buy the latest model of iPhone or order Doordash, you’re harming the world and paying for the next CEO’s weekend getaway trip. Every time you pay for the newest game or go watch the latest movie, every time you pay for convenience, you’re feeding the system in a massive way.
It’s far to much to expect any kind of actual “revolution” to take place. We could literally cripple capitalism overnight with a general strike, but nobody wants the inconvenience. So the next best thing is we start hoarding money away from the grips of these liches and undead dragons.