I keep hearing this and I’m going to be honest this take sounds like hyperbole. All I see is it requires developers to send in identifying credentials. How does one turn into the other? Can someone explain that without catastrophizing?
Like, I’m with you, I just don’t like bad arguments.
Let’s be honest it already isn’t mine
I used to multi-boot a rooted android with whatever rom caught my fancy. Kali (pwnpad I think it was called) was a thing for a while. You know, when Android was fun and you could do such things. I wonder how viable that is these days.
It is still happening. Although not as bad as it initially appeared.
What can we do? Use GrapheneOS and contact your representatives. That’s pretty much it. But good luck, your reps are likely trying to actively promote locking down the OS.
Thanks. I will do those things.💪
In addition to GrapheneOS (Motorola/ Google Pixel), I was considering brands made in the EU: Jolla phone with Linux or FairPhone with eOS.
Note that you can also get the Fairphone with iodeOS installed, which may be preferred as e/OS’s launcher is closer to iOS in appearance while iodeOS looks more like stock Android. Based on personal taste for that I think, but I would prefer iodeOS.
Using graphene or lineage won’t help. You will still need to avoid google services. Which means no banking apps, government apps, McDonald app, Whatsapp … And the list goes on.
I’ve already swapped to GrapheneOS and refuse to use anything from the Play store. Don’t even have it installed.
Most of the apps I was already using day to day have GitHub repos with apks and Obtanium auto updates for me.
Yeah losing banking apps sucks, but oh well? I don’t see the big loss there. I’ll just use the desktop site and anything else I’ll just go to my bank physically.
I’d rather deal with the inconvenience at this point.
My google android device runs GrapheneOS, with which you can use sandboxed google play services. Yes, the google play services API will likely block nonconforming apps from functioning if they use play services, but apps don’t have to use play services, and you’ll still be able to install anything you want. As far as I’m concerned, any app that stops working when google pulls the plug in September will be replaced with a FOSS alternative.
Banking apps won’t have FOSS alternatives.
You will still likely be forced into using play services apps, even on Graphene, unless you have a contingency not to use some apps at all. But for things like banking, that realistically may not be an option (unless you don’t bank).
Edit: not sure why the downvotes. Some banking apps won’t even run on rooted devices, and there are banks who are forcing customers to use their app instead of the mobile site. It’s just a matter of time for the desktop sites in those cases.
Hell, I even know people who are required to use an app to pay their rent.
Just because it hasn’t happened to you (yet) doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.
You’re right, and I’ll add that my current banking app was recently updated, and now no longer works, giving me nonsecure OS warning, which is comically ironic.
With respect to companies requiring apps to do things like pay rent, that is a double-edged sword. They can demand, but their goods and services generally have alternatives, and companies that take a hard line risk alienating their customers, pushing them to look elsewhere.
Can you use the desktop site through the phone browser on a Linux phone or grapheneos?
My bank won’t let you deposit checks through the browser and has closed their physical locations so you can’t deposit checks in person. I get around this by keeping a cheap default tablet around my house.
Depends on your bank. My bank requires you to use the app instead of the old mobile site as of last year. I have been able to use the desktop site, but only by overtly spoofing the user agent. Doesn’t seem ideal long term.
My point is: there are very likely to be some apps which are a problem, and some of those will have no alternative but play services. Google is betting on it.
Realistically at that point, would it be better to be on iOS than android, then? I know iOS is wayyyyyy locked down, but apple is slightly more privacy respecting than android from what I understand, because Apple’s incentive is to sell you services and hardware, while Google’s is to sell you as a product to advertisers?
I have no strong opinion here, looking to be educated. I’ve never wanted an iPhone, but I’m already looking at a used m1 air, and if google is going to rape me and now they’re taking the lube away, would I (a person who is not techy enough to really understand how to fight back against this) be better off on an iPhone? Most of my income right now comes from doordashing. I’m fairly certain I won’t be able to do that without play services or whatever iPhone uses
Yes if you want the convenience and not give up anything iOS is better then android. If your willing to give up some convenience graphene OS.
What’s wrong with banks’ mobile sites?
Nothing. Sometimes they don’t have one, or it just takes you to the app download via Play Store.
Or as another commenter said, they may not be feature complete. Banks may see the mobile site as a security risk (or other things: some bank apps also refuse to run on rooted devices).
Uploading paper check deposits requires the app
No whatsapp? I used it on waydroid with no google services installed
Yes, gave your tried recently? Wathsapp Is banning users Just because they use it on lineage os without google apps… Not common, but it’s happening.
I was lineage os maintainer and still follow a few forums. And this topic is recurrent in the last months.
I am on Lineage with no gapps, I do have microg though, but not logged in. And have been for a couple years. No problems with Whatsapp so far, and banking apps too for that matter.
Is “no google services” the issue here? I still have waydroid but with google play at the moment
Whatsapp web is so unbearably slow i might just use waydroid lol, thanks for reminding
EDIT: it is fast but it is using %50 of a core at all times🤷♂️ Aaand now it is calmly sitting in the background, no cpu usage
I think it’s an issue with rooted or bootloader unlocked phones mostly …
I should have been more clear… Waydroid uses LineageOS as its Android image and since it is used on x86_64 (it also supports ARM but > %90 of Android image downloads are x86_64) it is basically worse than phones with custom ROMs from the perspective of app developers trying to lock down stuff / create security.
I can’t remember the last time i had a banking app. Are they so critical in your experience?
I use the web browser.
My bank (Capitalone) won’t allow check deposits by the web browser and is closing their physical locations so you can’t deposit in person either.
They are mandatory for authentication even when using web site
That’s awful. Mine uses phone number but i also haven’t tried to open an account in a while.
That’s true in most European countries nowadays. You can use sms authentication but it usually cost extra.
And that still doesn’t solve the government app issue, o have all my ID loaded and get all my government notification on that, including tax deadlines, official communication and official IDs… That would be a serious step back if I am forced to give it up
My bank(s) have their own 2FA apps which are used for the web as well.
Same apps are used to identify myself and digital signatures for taxes, credit, health care etc.
The worst of all is that a private company owns one of these 2FA apps and can in theory deny you service.
The EU should be rolling out their own later this year (or next). But for now, I need an up-to-date Android/iPhone not to make life more complicated than it has to be.
…which is precisely what GrapheneOS does?
People need to start working on hacks to freeze or patch Google Play Services ASAP. (Is that even possible, or is it protected at such a low level that it can’t be replaced/modified without rooting? If so, GrapheneOS or other AOSP-based alternate ROMs without Play services would be our only hope.)
The cat-and-mouse game that will start once this is rolled out is only a temporary solution; legislation and making google roll back this decision is the only long-term solution. That, and real Linux phones running something other than Android.
I read on the keepandroidopen github that the “advanced flow” (for “side-loading”) is delivered through Google Play Services, not the Android OS, meaning Google can modify, restrict, or remove it at any time without an OS update and without any user consent.
So, yes, I think you’re right, GrapheneOS, PostmarketOS, /e/OS and the likes would be safe (for now) since they don’t have the “Google Play Services”. I read MicroG is a way to get core functionalities of the Play Services API.
For Linux phone, the Jolla phone has peeked my interest. But I would be missing Android apps, unless there is virtualization to run those??
Isn’t Valve working on a compatibility layer for running Android apps on linux? Also there is Waydroid which runs Android apps in containers at pretty decent speed.
Like Microsoft, Google seems to be forcing Power Users to Linux.
But, wouldn’t we (or you) miss the Android apps? Interesting though if we could make that happen.
I think our best chance to have less influence from Google would be legislation from the EU. (Government of France 🇫🇷 is based: they’re going Linux).
I dont know about all the Linux for phone. But I do know couple of them let you run Android apps. I think Valve might even be working on something for the Steam Frame. Which I assume could be ported to the phones.
And yeah I would miss apps. But Ill only be dicked around so much.
While I’m not going to say its over, it sure looks like Google is about to make it a whole lot harder for people to escape their influence.
And the worst part of this is it would seem even the most “privacy conscious” governments are on Google’s side.
Because locking everything down and removing our privacy is good for the children… Just never mind the rich pedophile cabal that almost nothing was done about other than slapping the wrists a few very high profile scapegoats.
So, in this case a Linux phone would be best?
Anyway, I’ll get a phone with a different OS than Google Android. But I’m not sure about Linux yet. I like my Android FOSS apps.
That is the thing iOS is better default but its FOSS apps are low, and I understand why 100 bucks a year thing. I whish iOS would allow 3rd party stores like really allow them not the bullshit they are doing in the EU,
Since this runs through the Play Store, what if the Play is disables, Play Services are disabled but you are still on Android. They can’t enable this on your device right?
I’ve been getting into some games on itch.io.
Allll of those .apk files are going to turn into garbage in 100 days. Its like the death of flash all over again.And here there’s a list of regulators to which you can complain: https://keepandroidopen.org/cta/#consumers
So sad. Hmm, a different OS? PostmarketOS? eOS? Try if those support your device.
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Whelp, we might as well just bend over. /S
You are not powerless. Stop acting like it. Get in the flight or shut up.
Nothing can be done, it’s over. And if it’s not over now it’ll be in a few years.
What kind of placid, bootlickicking bullshit is this?
What function does your comment actually serve, beyond throwing a bucket of ice water on the idea of not taking things lying down?
If you find spirit, you can complain to your competent authorities in your region: https://keepandroidopen.org/cta/#consumers
