Use of single-sex toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards in England, Scotland and Wales is now restricted according to a person’s birth sex, rather than the gender with which they identify.
And that’s why it’s TERF Island.
So, how will this be enforce or is this just an excuse to for the idiotic general public beat people up?
I’m from the US, but I imagine its going to be like sodomy laws we had on the books for the longest time. Laws like this are largely unenforceable, but can be used to “throw the book” at someone if so desired. That also makes it performative for politicians, and they might even rest conscience free no matter how they really feel about the matter.
That said, I think older folks from the gay community might be able to provide better context about this sort of thing. I only know so much.
Like the drug laws, dress code laws, and so on, another one of the legion of bullshit laws used to harass citizens. Just one more reason to “check ID”, which leads to many more “crimes” to get the charged into the court system and squeeze even more money from them. They want to get you on parole or into the prison system bad.
Think of it as another tax, like interest rates.
A lot of businesses already deny any bathroom access in the USA, even to paying customers; they don’t care. This law will decrease public bathroom access for all unless UK government already dictates public access to business bathrooms.
Quite a lot of trans men are quite jacked, with facial hair.
Whoever is in favour of this ridiculous situation, is in favour of men using women’s toilets it seems. I’m very confused.
Yes but that’s not a problem for anyone terfs think if as people.
They don’t think about trans men existing.
You always hear about trans women, but I have only met one (that I know of) where I know several bio females that transitioned to be a man or non binary. I would be curious what the statistics are but I bet more females transition than males, which makes sense in our sexist society I suppose 🤷♂️
Searching online I’m seeing it’s mostly evenly split between men/women with a few more enbies.
In my personal experience it’s far more trans women, but I guess trans men pass easier and go stealth. So less likely to be part of the community and more likely to be out fishing or something.
Fair enough! My anecdotal evidence definatley doesn’t qualify as statistically accurate, just what’s happened in my friend group really lol.
What a spectacular display of how the right wing posh cunts in the UK are little more than unthinking morons (in the technical sense of “moron”, even) who barelly managed to learn a posh accent and dress code in whatever £40k/year public school they attended.
Not only did it took a quite a lot of explaining INCLUDING at the end repeating some things in a “For dummies” short format to get that posh cunt to understandstand the problem, his reaction makes it painfully obvious that he didn’t even thought about things properly until that very moment.
I lived in the UK for over a decade and came out thinking that the country is profoundly and structurally anti-Meritocratic.
Yes, its capitalist. They’re all like that.
All countries I lived in were Capitalist.
The UK was the most class stratified, with the lowest social mobility of all, with the most dynastic elites and land-ownership concentration.
Also I have literally never lived anywhere else were there was a language accent specifically for rich people - everywhere has regional accents, but a “rich people” accent is very rare.
Wealth segregation is a core structural element of British society and at the upper economic layers Britain is much more cronyist and nepotist than even Southern Europe.
Nothing to be confused about. Hurting trans people is the point.
I have been to Hollywood before, they do not let people use restroom, in a freaking tourist town.
There was a lot of pee and poo outside, by dumpsters and pay phones, all over on the side streets.
By banning restrooms you end up with other issues far worse.
Why are they so OBSESSED with public bathrooms? They are nasty places you use if you have no other choice. This makes no sense to me why it takes up so much of their active brain activity.
Why are they so OBSESSED with public bathrooms?
$0.02: gender segregation of restrooms can be seen as an institution in support of a patriarchal class system. Likewise, breaking down the difference between the two (e.g. non-binary and transitioning folk) can be seen as a threat to said system.
https://time.com/4337761/history-sex-segregated-bathrooms/
TL;DR: It’s sexism all the way down.
Because it is great for distracting people from noticing the shady as fuck shit they do in back rooms and behind closed doors.
Modern Neoliberal Politics, both the “center”-Right and the “opposing” performance of “center”-“Left”.
Whilst politicians, the media and (ideally for them) the public opinion are talking about gender minorities’ access to toilets, they’re not talking of wealth inequality, the lack of access to housing and general empoverishmnt of young people and the “World-beating” bad management of Britain for the last 4 decades (especially since 2007, extra specially so since the Leave Referendum).
The more politicians talk about moral subjects and scapegoat foreigners (“immigrants” when performing a “Right” character, “foreign interference” when performing a “Left” character) for a country’s mismanagement, the more they’re hidding how much they’re mismanaging the country when it comes to what affects everyday life for most people, be it because those politicians’ only real competence is in managing appearances and deceit or because they’re only really motivated by the rewards they will get from the very rich friends they make by making laws and managing the country for the benefit of very rich, very thankful people (and screw everybody else).
TL;DR - this shit is just yet another Act in the Theatrical Production which is mainstream politics in Neoliberalism and its purpose is to entertain people to make them forget that the purpose of elected politicians in Representative Democracy is to Manage a country well in the interest of their voters, not to be Improv Thespians for the entertainment of the masses.
I am sure the idea is to force us into hiding. It is a precursor for far more nefarious things.
First they try to poison public opinion and dehumanize us.
Then they go after bathrooms and sports.
Now they are going after WPATH so that it will be even harder to transition.
They continue to try and slip things into budget bills to take away our ability to afford care. And were somewhat successful in defunding planned parenthood. I had to switch providers last year because they wouldnt cover me there anymore. Hopefully that has changed but i am not sure.
Soon, less than half the country will be safe. And if the federal government continues on this path they will find a way to force every state to stop insurance coverage.
And i dont really want to entertain the next part right now.
Yep, all this really really fucking sucks. I hope i am wrong. It can be an easy trap to fall into, the cycle of negative thinking, and i fall into it too often.
They want us stressed out and scared. They want to bully us into recanting our identity. Don’t give them the satisfaction. Live your life to the fullest in as many moments as you can. Spread your kindness to those around you.
I have to believe that somehow good will win over evil. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesnt. I just keep believing in myself in doing my best.
I know all this sounds very doom and gloom. That is because it is. So what the fuck can we do? Start by building a social safety net now if you don’t have one. Reach out to local support groups. Get a therapist if you don’t have one. Concentrate on self care. Protest. Vote. Get involved with local government. Try and make friends with other transgender folks even if it can only be online.
We can get through this. But it’s gonna be a hard fight and it might take decades.
Becuase sports and toilets are their wedges, they’ll broaden the targets after getting the public on board with these steps.
I’d just like to point out that Great Britain does not have separation of church and state.
Trans men who look like the Hairy Bikers are gonna be pinching off loaves in women’s bathrooms now, on pain of legal trouble, thanks to the efforts of those who are frightened by trans people 🤦Make it make sense…
And even for the people who don’t pass, it really isn’t an issue until some pos makes it. Its a bathroom: just use it and leave.
A lot of trans people say they will still be going to the right bathroom for their gender because going to the wrong one would cause problems.
a lot of trans people pass extremely well. i guarantee every person in this country has taken a shit 3 feet away from a trans person taking their shit, and will never know it. this political climate mainly brutalizes trans women who dont pass well for whatever reason, be it late blooming or not caring to do voice training or feminisation surgeries which is a completely valid and personal choice.
just make all restrooms unisex
You don’t get it. Hospitals that had unisex bathrooms at wards now have to change these to single gender ones.
My mother: I would never use a unisex bathroom.
Me: the bathroom in your house is unisex
Mother: that’s different that’s family
Me: so you wouldn’t let the plumber or electrician use the bathroom?
Mother: confused stare
How many people use that bathroom at the same time?
Depends how badly you gotta go while your sibling is in the shower. And spouses often walk in on each other, with a knock and permission of course
I understand where this point comes from, but it always comes across as vapid to me. Obviously when people express concern about gender-neutral bathrooms, they’re talking about multi-user gender-neutral bathrooms.
So don’t have multiple people share a seat?
Seriously though, it’s not hard to have an open space with multiple stalls.
(First: a disclaimer. Someone will try to make a bad-faith interpretation of this as me opposing gender-neutral restrooms. I’m fine with gender-neutral restrooms, but it’s intellectually lazy to point to them as a solution to “the trans bathroom problem.”)
In what universe is it easier to convince the population to completely give up gendered multi-user restrooms than it is to simply let trans people use the restrooms of their gender, as we have been for generations?
Do you know how trans people typically choose when to switch which restroom we use? We typically do it when we start getting weird glances or comments in the restroom of our birth sex. In other words, trans people pick the path of least disruption or resistance. You switch restrooms when remaining in the old one would be more disruptive than moving to the new one. Most trans people go out of their way to cause as few waves as possible. All trans people need for this is to just be left the fuck alone. We’re handling it. Just mind your own damn business and stop legislating our lives.
Compare that to what you propose. You need to get the entire society onboard with getting rid of gendered bathrooms. You need to get parents OK with the idea of their 10 year old daughter sharing a restroom with a 300 lb 6’ tall man. (And not just bigot’s stereotypes of trans women, actual big cisgender men.) I’m sorry, but while maybe in an ideal enlightened world, that would be possible. But we just don’t live in that world.
Trans people: “Please just leave us alone and quit getting into our business.”
Enlightened centrists: “No! We’ll keep the bigoted law in place restricting your bathroom use. But no worries, soon we’ll just abolish gendered restrooms all together, and the problem will be solved!”
With allies like these, who needs enemies?
In what universe is it easier to convince the population to completely give up gendered multi-user restrooms than it is to simply let trans people use the restrooms of their gender, as we have been for generations?
I wonder if someone in 1960’s made the same argument for keeping ‘colored’ bathrooms. 🤔
What kind of battery-acid-drinking argument is that?
I stated something that’s an unambiguous fact.
I said:
In what universe is it easier to convince the population to completely give up gendered multi-user restrooms than it is to simply let trans people use the restrooms of their gender, as we have been for generations?
Compare the two different pitches:
-
Let’s do exactly what we’ve been doing for generations. Trans people have been using restrooms without trouble for decades. Let’s just stop pretending it’s a big deal and get on with our lives.
-
We are abolishing all public recognition of gender. Everyone now must live as nonbinary. We will no longer have gendered spaces of any kind.
Can you make any argument at all why the second is an easier pitch than the first?
And frankly, the comparison you made is insulting and binary-phobic. People are allowed to have gender. We’re allowed to have gendered spaces. I’m trans and I like my gender, thank you very much. I fully support nonbinary people. I want to see gender neutral restrooms built wherever possible, and support enbys using whatever bathroom they prefer. But you’re not seeking to validate nonbinary identities. Instead you’re seeking to invalidate binary ones.
To pretend that binary gender identities are invalid, or that gendered spaces are invalid? I’m sorry, but that is just pure disgusting bigotry against binary genders.
Being nonbinary is fine. Being a bigot against binary people is not.
Bodily functions are not binary or gendered specific. Everyone shits and pisses. So why such a need for seperated spaces? If privacy is a concern, stalls can be made with solid doors.
-
This is the solution of choice of those who don’t really respect trans identities but want to propose a reasonable-sounding but completely impractical solution they know will never be implemented. Anything to keep from just saying “trans women are women and belong in the women’s restroom.”
Excuse me but, what makes genderless bathrooms impossible to implement or impractical? I do get that the bathroom issue is just superficial and going genderless wouldn’t be a real solution to the hate and bigotry, but I’ve always found gendered toilets quite stupid.
Because instead of just going with the easy solution of letting trans people use the bathroom for their gender, (which we’ve been doing for generations), you propose a solution that would require the entire society to get onboard with a complete reformation of how public restrooms work.
Instead of the simple and expedient solution that works just fine, you set up an impossible goal that will never be accepted by society.
Reality check. Most people don’t want there to only be gender neutral bathrooms. I think you know this which is why you’re setting this as a solution to this “problem.”
How about we just let trans people use the right bathrooms today, and you can go off on your gender neutral bathroom crusade if you like. But leave us out of it.
First, you’re confusing me with the other commenter. I just asked about what you said.
Second, you didn’t answered that question.
Third, gender neutral restrooms, bathrooms, toilets, latrines, outhouses… have been the norm for most of human history, gendered ones are the recent invention not the other way around.
Most people don’t want there to only be gender neutral bathrooms.
I don’t know, honestly. Most people don’t have gendered bathrooms in their homes, do they? Also, what I do know is that ‘most people’, quote, “favor laws that require transgender individuals to use bathrooms that correspond to their sex at birth”, so I don’t think ‘most people’ arguments are of help here when it’s well known that most people will just go along with the status quo without a second thought.
you set up an impossible goal that will never be accepted by society.
Going back a couple of years the sole concept of considering trans people would be problematic and impossible to deal with. Going way further we had problems with race as “coloured” people had their own bathroom. The thing about all of this is we have the power (as demonstrated historically) to make the impossible possible.
There is no bigotry involved here, in fact it is reversed: as sex isn’t binary - its more of a spectrum. And in terms of simplicity, what’s simpler than a singular bathroom - this pointless division is what really is makes this complex.
The problem is that this isn’t the easy solution because asshats pass legislation like this. Honestly the same people that don’t want gender neutral bathrooms are the same people that don’t want trans people to use certain restrooms. Gender neutral bathrooms are not the problem you are making them out to be.
We had stupid bill like this at the state level a few years ago that was widely unpopular and repealed a year later. Most businesses labeled their restrooms as unisex to protest the bill and support the trans community.
Trans women are apparently only women when it comes to showing their nipples.
Trans women are women (except when they’re puppies, which is shockingly often. Then they’re bitches), but gender segregated restrooms are inefficient. You can skip the whole issue and undercut the basis of that nonsense transphobia.
Because gendered restrooms are bullshit inefficiency to start with.
Ok. Then go have your crusade and leave trans people out of it. I just don’t like seeing our civil rights being made contingent on massive change to the social structure that very few people would be down with.
It’s like those yahoos who say, “we wouldn’t have all these problems with trans acceptance if we just abolished gender!”
very few people
Nobody complains anywhere I’ve seen them, including at the local queer spaces. It turns out they’re also the only solution for non-binary people, who I’m sure you care about very much.
we wouldn’t
Technically true, but that’s not why they’re saying it and that’s a slightly bigger ask than ‘think no differently in the immediate term, remove some signs’. If these people cared what you fucking wanted and responded to rational arguments this would never have been a problem in the first place, but you’re still Jere asking them to think differently/at all.
I just want this big thing that the chuds all hate that’s an entirely fake culture war issue none of them gave a single shit about 20 years ago, not this big thing that is just removing some signs and would make everyone’s lives and building use very very slightly more efficient and requires no ideological surrender or identity damage while neutralizing a key terrain if struggle in my favor.
That’s what you sound like here. You’re panicking and screaming about the things your lying liar opponents say rather than trying to think strategically about what actually effects the ways they behave.
We are on the edge of god damn war with unthinking rage fueled privilege monsters and you’re still trying to batter them with your ego and ‘what I want’. No subtlety no manipulation no strategy not even ‘I want it all, surrender not an inch’. Just tantrum.
Edit: never mind. They’re a bigot who hates non binary people.
Nobody complains anywhere I’ve seen them, including at the local queer spaces. It turns out they’re also the only solution for non-binary people, who I’m sure you care about very much.
We’re not talking about having gender-neutral bathrooms. We’re talking about ONLY having gender neutral bathrooms. If you think the broad society is going to accept only having gender neutral bathrooms, you’re delusional.
You think this is a less acceptable demand than “think of me as I wish to be thought of”? “Don’t be an irrational insane bucket of duck cunt”?
And again, the only solution that works for nb’s.
Sorry, the vast majority of society is never going to accept purely gender-neutral restrooms. Hell, I prefer having gendered restrooms. I support installing single-occupancy gender-neutral restrooms everywhere practical, but 90% of the population is never going to support completely abolishing gendered restrooms. The nonbinary folks will just have to make peace with that. Being trans is about your own body and gender; it’s not about controlling others. I support building systems that let nonbinary people move through the world. But accommodating nonbinary people does not mean everyone becomes nonbinary.
And again, the only solution that works for nb’s.
Only if someone is some sort of bizarre nonbinary supremacist.
IDK, my college made a bathroom unisex by just getting rid of the urinal in the men’s room but keeping the women’s room women only. Which I understand, some girls and women would be uncomfortable with the possibility of accidentally seeing a dick, and women need safe spaces from men.
So I’d rather just keep the urinals and let trans women just use the women’s bathroom. Hell you can call the men’s room a unisex bathroom if you want and let anyone in, just don’t get rid of the urinal.
But then who would we exclude?
Terfs
But aren’t they conservatives!? Those are the people the law is supposed to protect, not the people the law is supposed to bind!
I’m so tired. I’m just gonna lay down and close my eyes. If I never get back up, keep on.
Thanks for the downvote, random friend. It shows me you care about the day-to-day plight and suffering and wearing-down of transgender people in a way that only you can indicate with a downvote.
TERF island
I remember when the british government forced people amab to take estrogen
Like Alan Turing? You remember that? How old are you??
According to wikipedia, at least 74
Dumpster Fire!
They’re not banned from using changing rooms or toilets, just ones specifically made for the opposite sex. What gender you identify as make no difference to what sex you are.
Transitioning changes your sex, and what about intersex people?
