This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?
Africans: You know, 14th century mercator maps are horribly disproportionate over 1/2 the map and are the maps of reference for most online apps, software and textbooks. There are better projections that balance location for actual land mass, we should probably use those.
lemmy: garbage take.
The way the world’s going, the next accepted projection will be depicted on the backs of four elephants atop a turtle.
Bring on the Wizzards
I do hope we get the luggage…
i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there’s no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.
You’ve unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you’d pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it’s not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.
Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn’t any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.
This is so dumb what do you mean replace you have a phone and can look up different versions as u please
They’re speaking of the standard and default in most map representations.
The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.
As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
Don’t give the right any ideas. They’ll be on about “geometric purity” or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be “woke.”
“The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!”
Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something “I should know”.
I’ll split this into two:
only matters to stupid people
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism… generally not a low IQ cohort.
and does not qualify as something “I should know”
Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you…
maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why i’m seeing this everywhere rn.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.
what the fuck are these people talking about?
a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?
this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades
This is the correct take… The only time people care about maps these days are when they go to maps.google.com. And that’s an actual 3d representation. Therefore this issue is such a non-fucking-issue that I don’t understand why I’ve seen so much noise about it here.
It’s stupid.
Does it matter that I don’t know the actual size of Africa compared to Greenland? No… It’s completely irrelevant to just about anyone’s day to day life. And even if I did grow up on a map that was more accurate… You know what I’d likely miss out on then? Actual directionality which DOES matter more for a typical person.
Looking at the other maps presented in these threads… They all lose the ability to reference NSEW compass directions.
Except for one… and guess what… that one is the one that I actually remember from school. Or at least a variation close enough to it that can’t make out any difference from my memory.
Yeah, I’m open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven’t seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are…to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.
This will never happen as long as Big Greenland pulls the strings of power in the cartography world.
It’s time the U.S. deals with big Greenland once and for Oil.
And they’re very big. Have you looked at a map lately? Do you expect tiny little Africa to stand up to that?
Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here’s what the Equal Earth projection looks like
Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I’m so mad I’m not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.
What really disappoints me about that site is the button that reads “Download the Correct Map”. They destroyed all their credibility with one word.
Damn Russia is still that big? I thought the distortion played a large part in its size on the original map.
Yeah, but now it’s tiny compared to Antarctica
Pfft. Antarctica is but a few islands in an ice-sheet trench coat. If the ice sheets melted, it would remain uninhabited except for some stalwart rancher folk.
you need to tag nudity as NSFW
Greenland’s not that big is it?
Yes it’s still quite big, but not nearly as big as Australia (as Mercator would suggest). On a globe it is quite obvious, but who has a globe at home in 2025…
I do.
DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO
EDIT: details
It has less distortion of relative size of areas, most notably when compared to the Mercator projection; and less distortion of shapes of areas, notably when compared to the Gall–Peters projection. Other compromise projections attempt a similar trade-off.
More unusually, the Dymaxion map does not have any “right way up”. Fuller argued that in the universe there is no “up” and “down”, or “north” and “south”: only “in” and “out”.[9] Gravitational forces of the stars and planets created “in”, meaning “towards the gravitational center”, and “out”, meaning “away from the gravitational center”. He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias.
This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn’t put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
Honestly, at least in school you should use a globe to begin with. It is the best projection there is. I’m also pretty sure there are online “globes” that you can turn any way you want. Using a 2D projection is mostly unnecessary in education.
A globe isn’t a projection at all, it’s the real deal. Projection occurs when you take that 3D surface and map it to a 2D surface.
I mean, if I wanted to knit pick - I guess theoretically the earth isn’t a perfect ball, and the mountains aren’t flat, so you would need a globe with topography for it to really not be a projection but a model
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Have you looked at the projections in question?
Mercator enlarges everything closer to the poles while making everything closer to the equator smaller. It does not matter which continent it is, since it follows the same formula worldwide. That means, Europe, North America, Greenland, the south end of South America, South Africa, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and Antarctica are enlarged, and Central America, northern South America, most of Africa, India, South Asia and Ocenania are depicted smaller.
The Equal Earth projection makes sure that each square kilometer of land takes up the same space on the map, no matter where it is.
So this enlarges all regions closer to the equator (as listed above) and shrinks all that are closer to the poles.
So obviously it does benefit most regions of South America and frankly, I’m quite surprised that you’d think it wouldn’t.
In fact, it would be quite difficult to make a projection that would specifically enlarge Africa while shrinking South America. (Certainly possible, but difficult)
I was referring to the text at the bottom of the press release:
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
It seems to single out Africa because this campaign is led by Africa No Filter and Speak Up Africa. I just thought it was amusing that the campaign text mentions Africa repeatedly but only indirectly mentions south america when referring to the global south.
Well, if it’s a petition fielded by the African Union, you’d expect it to focus on Africa, wouldn’t you?
Where’s the outrage on political platforms made to benefit specific other regions?
Why not include south America in there too?
Almost nobody here gives a flying fuck about education quality. If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
But in all seriousness I guess we as Latin America/South America don’t have that sense of unity as Africa does. We are absurdly diverse and I think it has taken a toll in our sense of identity
If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
I propose that Brazil go for the option of maximum chaos. Brazil should formally change its official name to Os Estados Unidos da América. Ain’t no rule that says two nations can’t have the same name. By default, every diplomat on Earth would just start casually referring to each country as the North United States and the South United States. Brazil could effectively rename the United States on a global diplomatic level.
South America/Latin America, unite! Become strong, and don’t let the US make of themselves the continent. Where’s LatAm’s (Sudamerica’s?) version of the EU?
I for one enjoy this modern “shared” culture in hispanic countries. Or at least what I perceive to be so. LatAm artists getting awards at Music Awards in Spain is poggers, and the collaborations between artists of different countries as well. Also the radio station being available in several countries as well. Afaik, Brazilians seem to not be very familiar with other lusophone countries’ culture as much, though it seems the contrary might be true. I imagine Brazilians also don’t be familiar with other LatAm countries’ music and culture either, but Idk. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Fuck this. We can do
betterworseI mean the problem with any projection of earth onto a 2d simplified shape surface is that it will be inherently distorted. The Mercator projection is scaled properly towards the equator but has to scale upwards more and more toward the poles to be able to fit the given area.
Even their own map, which for some reason isn’t shown in either the video or on the main page, isn’t accurate either. It’s better but is also warped in its own way, it would be nice if they had a little blurb that says something to that effect.
Here’s the actual map projection they are pushing for; https://equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html
Fuck that. Let’s go for the euler spiral.
deleted by creator
It seems like the kind of thing that would give rise to the
~Earth movementThe Tildearth Society
Tildearth desktop wallpaper
On linux tilde also represent home. Can have cute double meaning.
I mean, I’m not exactly thrilled about it erasing my country… Did a cartographer from New Zealand make this as an act of revenge? 🤔
Which country? It seems to all be there. It might be cut in half or upside down, but it’s all there.
Oh wait, there it is! I was too disoriented to spot it, Denmark 😄
Wait, what the hell did Denmark do to New Zealand?
Idunno, maybe they want to go on a bicycling holiday and resent how far away we are 🤷
In color
We could also have made Mercator maps of varying position, but that might not center Europe.
deleted by creator
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
I’ll be real here, I have no idea what these people are talking about. The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the continent is in global politics or economics. If someone thinks “country/continent looks small so they must be unimportant,” they are either a child or a fool. Or both.
I somewhat agree, Africa never looked small imo. However Russia, Greenland, Canada etc are so comically oversized that it absolutely makes a difference imo.
Its a distorted representation of what the Earth looks like, and regardless of the way the sphere of our Earth is displayed on a 2D plane, it will always be distorted.
I don’t see any tangible benefit from changing what has already worked and is globally accepted for many decades. It seems kinda nitpicky, or like these people are clout chasing or something.
Worked for whom? The countries that are over-represented in the current map? Or the countries that started this petition?
Uhh… everybody.
If it was working for everyone, there would never be a widespread movement that got Mercator largely phased out of education.
It was working for everyone in navigation, where angles mattered. Which is why it became the most used map.
It was phased out in favour of maps showing area more correctly, because navigation w. maps became less important, not because “it didn’t work”.
The fact that you say Africa is a country kind of speaks against your argument here, wouldn’t you say?
I meant continent, it was a mistake.
Fair enough. Could’ve been a Freudian? Cause it looks so small?? 😀
The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics.
Africa isn’t a country though, it’s a continent with dozens of independent, distinct and diverse countries in it.
And one possible impact of the continent being represented much smaller than it really is, is people thinking of Africa as a single country.
I meant continent. My bad.
No worries - the general point still stands though I think 👍
it’s a pretty common talking point. and he people most likely to look at maps nowadays are indeed children.
it’s a pretty common talking point.
Not common enough, apparently.
I have never in my life ever heard anyone equate the size of a country on a map to its importance to global politics and economics. And I am old enough to remember when you had to hang up the phone before you could use the internet.
This is a subconscious thing, not an explicit belief.
let me rephase; it’s a pretty common talking point when discussing map projections. has been since the 50s.
Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.
IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn’t acceptable, then get a globe.
Okay… but doesn’t this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?
If it’s already distorted, switching to a different distortion that’s area-preserving can still be an improvement.
Hm… personally, I think it’s very situational, but generally I feel like a more accurate shape is more important than size. I especially feel like it would be important for children who are just learning the map.
Did you read the website? The Mercator projection is not accurate at all.
Yeah, I did read the website. Did you? Or is it that you didn’t read my response? One of the two has to be true, considering the website is entirely focused on the size of the rest of the world in comparison to Africa, and never once mentions the point I made and you disregarded.
still not as aesthetic as Waterman butterfly projection
(and relevant XKCD)
I didn’t think I’d ever have a favourite map but here we are.
That projection shows how vast the Pacific is
It’s almost two entire sections, with just a little of North America, Asia, and Antarctica. And then some on four others. It’s obvious from a glance, no other body of water or land mass comes anywhere near that.
And if you still don’t think that’s vast enough, maybe a lifetime of bad projections have given you a distorted view of the Pacific’s size. Mercator and Mercator like projections definitely make the Pacific look much too large near the poles.
