Detoxing.
If you have working kidneys, you shouldn’t need to detox.
Also: weight-loss teas. they give you diharrea so you lose weight in water, which you will immediately gain again.I have a co-worker who says she was using some pads that you put on the bottom of your feet and then go to sleep. You wake up in the morning and remove the pad to see it covered in black stuff. Claiming to have all those toxins leave her body.
I highly doubt that was the case.
There’s a myth that MSG is bad for you and is found in Chinese restaurants. MSG has been studied extensively and never found to cause the symptoms people claim, furthermore MSG is used widely in a huge range of food production (lots of sauces, fast foods etc etc)
MSG is very common in mushrooms, Parmesan cheese, and tomatoes. It’s why people love Italian food ao much
I can literally buy it by the bucket.
Same with aspartame. Its been studied until the cows come home and it is safe.
That there are a lot of “Chemicals” in something, and that it’s bad for you.
Everything is Chemicals.
dihydrogen monoxide = waterThings being low fat. Sometimes it’s just watered down or packed with sugar, so it may not be healthy at all
Counter point - fat is actually healthy
No one food is “healthy” or “unhealthy”, it always depends on how much of it and what else you eat.
True. But fat is one of the foods it’s hard to eat too much of.
Try to sit down to a big bowl of butter. It’s just hard to eat by itself. In fact it’s one of the tricks used in the keto community to determine a addictive craving versus actual hunger. If you’re willing to eat butter by itself, you’re hungry, if you’re not willing to eat the butter but you still have a craving that’s addiction
Man, this would not work for me. I’m always willing to eat butter.
Could you eat a whole stick of butter by itself?
Is this a challenge? The answer is yes, multiple times over
Yeah, I’m pretty sure I could. I never did that because I have enough reason and willpower. But eating a bit of butter by itself as a “snack” is something I do sometimes and I’m sure I could eat a lot more if I didn’t control myself.
I could eat slabs of it. It’s delicious, I like shortbread cos it’s just butter mixed with sugar and butter is good. I especially like cheese smothered in butter
I’m fascinated. You are the first person I’ve meet who has said this.
How is your nutrition overall? Are you eating well, any problems/deficiencies? are you underweight?
Nah that’s actually a myth itself. Pure sugar serves no purpose (in an otherwise healthy diet) and causes or exacerbates many minor health problems. It can make some kinds of arthritis go on the fritz and of course can directly contribute to (to the point of being a direct cause of) diabetes.
Similarly, saturated fats are much, much, much easier to get way too much of, which makes them worth avoiding.
There are a few other food components that are absolutely not healthy, but I don’t remember specifics off hand.
Trans fats are bad.
Excess saturated fat could be bad depending on the health condition of the person.
Trans fats are bad.
ok, yeah, agreed.
Excess saturated fat could be bad depending on the health condition of the person.
This doesn’t match my reading of the literature. Even if someone had extensive CVD dietary fat wont increase their bad outcome risks. The damaged cholesterol (glycated and oxidate) is the warning sign of CVD issues - and that is caused by dietary sugar/carbs/industrial oils.
Have you read this? https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2024/september/research-reveals-hidden-dangers-of-high-saturated-fat-diet
A diet high in saturated fat is more dangerous for the heart than a diet high in unsaturated fat, even when there has been no weight gain, according to new research funded by us and presented at the European Society of Cardiology Congress 2024 in London.
I haven’t seen it before, is this the paper they are hinting at (I HATE it when articles don’t mention the research they are talking about) https://doi.org/10.1242/dmm.050878 ?
The problem with this literature review is the studied studies only look at 30% total energy as LC, which on a 1500 kcal daily intake is 75g of carbs, which means the participants were not in a ketogenic state, not fat adapted, and had elevated insulin levels during the study. I think they looked at a weak signal across the data set, but that is the purpose of literature reviews.
I’m glad they are reviewing the Noakes literature. If you look at table 1, every low carbohydrate intervention regardless of fat composition resulted in a reduction of liver fat. That tells us saturated fat is not a independent variable in this review.
From the conclusion of the paper
Current evidence from hypercaloric feeding studies clearly shows that the consumption of excess calories, regardless of the macronutrient composition, increases IHTG content.
hypercaloric and isocaloric intervention studies in humans is that an individual’s dietary fat composition likely plays a role in mediating their IHTG content and composition
Likely tells us this is a opinion, and they qualified it in the expert opinion even.
Although the effect of SFA on IHTG content appears to diverge from that of unsaturated FA, specifically PUFA, the mechanisms underpinning these observations remain to be elucidated
Likely because this analysis isn’t looking along insulin or ketogenic state. Probably because there is lots of paper competition, so taking a novel perspective has a better publication chance for a phd candidate.
It’s a interesting literature review, but hardly a smoking gun against saturated fat as a demon, especially when you look at table 1 and the ketogenic interventions.
Please have a look at diet doctors literature review of saturated fat https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/saturated-fat#evidence-to-date
It’s extremely well referenced.
Thanks. It is really good to know that I can be more relaxed with saturated fat in my diet. I’m already doing low carb.
Yeah, that’s great! I hope you see improvements.
If someone is worried about saturated fat content of their diet they can always do calcium imaging of their arteries - it’s inexpensive and gives a actual score of risk. As far as I’ve read in the literature serum cholesterol is not a danger, only if it’s damaged - which can be measured by several proxies (tg/hdl ratio, fasting insulin) or measured directly through diffusion (though that is expensive).
Fat-phobia has been way overblown ever since the 1960s, when the sugar industry diverted public attention to it and away from their own products.
That individual health can be discussed separately from societal conditions such as what the market offers, salary levels, pollution, transport system, working hours, labour market, insurance system et cetera. “If you want to be healthy it is just your own individual responsibility to purchase healthy commercial products and services”.
Where I grew up, the well water was poisoned by a chemical dump in the 70’s. The public water system that was to replace the wells, draws their water just down stream of said dumpsite and downstream of a nuclear processing plant that dumps heavy radioactive metals into the river.
Guess its my fault for contributing to global pollution by buying bottled water shipped dozens of miles away.
You need to shower/bathe often. Actually the skin, the biggest organ of our bodies, is great at taking care of itself and washing it (especially with soap et.al) is bad if done too much.
“But(t) smell!”
Well yeah, I agree, but that doesn’t change the way our skin has evolved :P
I have seborrheic dermatitis so not washing my skin causes a rash.
But that’s a fungus allergy so aren’t you mostly treating it with anti-fungus medication?
(One of the proposed mechanisms for why skin becomes allergic to the malassezia yeast in the first place is that we disturb it through our washing routines but there’s no consensus on that afaik)
I’m candida overgrowth myself and too much washing with soap worsens it in my case. The human body is a wonderful thing :P
I mostly just use Ketoconazole shampoo (Nizoral) on the areas and leave it directly on without water for around five minutes. It has something to do with having oily skin, which is counter intuitive because it gets so dried out and flakes. I also believe it has to do with hydration, diet, overall stress levels, and even weather/environment. I also believe I have some kind of minor chronic inflammatory issue/ fatigue syndrome. I have considered changing my diet one thing at a time to make sure it’s not a problem with dairy or red meat.
RFK Jr.
In my family I often hear: A glass of wine a day is good for your health. Dieting doesn’t help to loose weight. Spinach has a lot of iron. Onions may have more salmonella than fresh meat. Vegetarian lifestyle is unhealthy. Chiropractors, homeopathy, TMC, natural medicine works.
I remember fondly when my family were in this cute little phase. Now they have moved onto harder drugs like 5G, chemtrails, fluoride, vaccines, white nationalism, pizzagate, and idolising American right wing insanity. Good luck!
Anti-vaxxers sadly
Normal blood tests means you are healthy
That said, more people should do blood tests regularly and observe the trends. I wish I had my blood tested much earlier. By the time the symptoms surface, a lot of damage is already done.
Yes. It goes both ways but since it was about myths, I posted only one side.
Ugh. Love, Long Covid.
Detoxing
But it removes the toxins !!!?!?
Let me introduce you to two of my best friends. Noodle, this is Liver and these are the twins, Kidneys (their parents had no imagination)
😝
I dont like them, they take my very fun alcohol and make them into nasty chemicals that makes me sick
Most of common sense advice about nutrition (everything since the 1950s) is basically 180 degrees backwards
[Update to clarify, HERE IS THE CORRECT ADVICE]
- carbohydrates are not essential
- fat is healthy and shouldn’t be avoided
- cico isn’t helpful
- industrial food oils are not good for you
- cholesterol is healthy
- meat is healthy, avoiding meat is bad for health
- grains should be avoided and not be the base of people’s diets
Cico is incredibly helpful, what are you on about? Our bodies do, in fact, follow the laws of thermodynamics. Sure, nutrients are also important, but if we’re just talking about weight, cico is key
To be clear: the above points are FALSE and the true is the opposite. (Just to avoid people misread and keep pushing wrong ideas)
Given how internet people usually apply brain, a “/s” would have been not a bad idea :)
Some of these aren’t true even when flipped, though.
A lot of food advice about what’s good/bad for you should really just be “eating this is helpful/safe in reasonable amounts” rather than a simple it is good/bad.
There are things you have to eat a minimum of because they are essential to the composition or processes of the body. Almost everything else you can eat, and even turn into useful energy, but then it is about not poisoning/overfeeding yourself.
Some of these aren’t true even when flipped, though.
I’m happy to get into details, if you want to pick one.
carbohydrates are essential
Correct. In that sugars and starches are the main thing human metabolize for energy. You can avoid them and fuel yourself on fat. But some carbohydrates are structural, and hence the lack of them is extremely harmful. Grouping all carbohydrates is a gross oversimplification.
fat is healthy…
Correct.
…and shouldn’t be avoided
Incorrect. Modern processed foods make it extremely easy to exceed healthy amounts, bypassing the point where you’d normally no longer want to eat any more (your eat a bunch of butter example).
cico is helpful
Very helpful, and should be common knowledge.
industrial food oils are good for you
I would say they are “not dangerous”. Some corners of the internet buy into a conspiracy about food oils basically being poison (seed oils, in particular), which is indeed entirely false. But no oil/fat is harmless when consumed in excess of what your body needs. Again, see modern industrial food processing and the way it bypasses our sense of taste and self-regulation of hunger.
But there is nothing about modern refined food oils that would make them more harmful than any other fats.
cholesterol is unhealthy
Oversimplification. If you are referring to high cholesterol levels, then you’re right. But cholesterol is also absolutely essential for several biological processes, especially brain function. It’s also not something we get from just eating it, as it is something our body makes.
Depriving yourself of it, would be lethal.
meat is bad, avoiding meat is good for your health
Meat is optional. You can live quite healthily with or without it. It contains some things you can easily eat too much of, but it’s also a source of some essential things. But which you can get from other things. The main argument against it isn’t human health related, but ethical and environmental. Like with fat, modern food processing and availability makes it easy to eat too much of it.
grains should not be avoided, and be the base of people’s diets
Correct.
cholesterol is unhealthy
Oversimplification. If you are referring to high cholesterol levels, then you’re right. But cholesterol is also absolutely essential for several biological processes, especially brain function. It’s also not something we get from eating it, as it is something our body makes, in response to what we eat.
Depriving yourself of the things you need for your body to make it, would be lethal.
Cholesterol, when undamaged - not glycated - not oxidized - is extremely healthy. This is commonly called pattern A “light and fluffy” cholesterol.
It’s a necessity for human life, you would die with zero cholesterol. Elevated LDL is only a sign of a problem when the elevation is due to damage (and the liver stops recycling the LDL, hence the buildup of the damaged type in the LDL reading).
The body, when unmolested by elevated insulin, produces exactly as much cholesterol as needed.
industrial food oils are good for you
I would say they are “not dangerous”. Some corners of the internet buy into a conspiracy about food oils basically being poison (seed oils, in particular), which is indeed entirely false. But no oil/fat is harmless when consumed in excess of what your body needs. Again, see modern industrial food processing and the way it bypasses our sense of taste and self-regulation of hunger.
But there is nothing about modern refined food oils that would make them more harmful than any other fats.
transfats for one are commonly considered unhealthy. processed industrial seed oils are heavily oxidized when consumed, have plant sterols that interfere with proper cholesterol function. They do lower LDL, which is why people like them, but that isn’t a good thing.
grains should not be avoided, and be the base of people’s diets
Correct.
Grains, being heavily processed carbohydrates, elevated insulin. Persistently elevated insulin levels is the most common cause of metabolic disease in the planet. This is most commonly seen in type 2 diabetes rates.
What I’m putting together is that you seem to subscribe to the “eat no carbohydrates because insulin bad and causes fattening” thinking pushed by the keto diet fad.
There are legitimate reasons to go on a keto diet, one of them is that inducing ketosis may allow you to lose weight marginally faster. But there is no conclusive evidence that it is superior to a normal diet in terms of long-term health implications. And it has DEFINITE downsides if you care about your physical performance, as glycogen consumed during physical exertion is replenished much slower when eating a restricted amount of carbohydrates.
In fact I can mostly find it referred to as “low-carbohydrate” diet because it is near impossible to entirely eliminate carbohydrates from your diet without also dropping some other essential nutrients, unless you get those via pills.
In fact when the keto diet is taken to the extreme in order to treat epilepsy, that’s exactly what they do. And even then it’s not harmless.
fat is healthy… …and shouldn’t be avoided
Incorrect. Modern processed foods make it extremely easy to exceed healthy amounts, bypassing the point where you’d normally no longer want to eat any more (your eat a bunch of butter example).
I agree that carbohydrates combined with fat are unhealthy. Inflammation from triggering the randle cycle cross inhibition. As well as elevated insulin levels suppressing proper hunger signaling leading to over consumption. However, the evil culprit here is not the fat, even when eaten in excess fat does not have a deleterious effect on the body, its the processed carbohydrates that cause the damage. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/saturated-fat#evidence-to-date
I’m not gonna deal with a comment for each point. Especially considering I can barely make out what your actual position is.
Please improve your writing comprehension, I don’t want to talk to you through your lack of it. This is probably the biggest case of talking past each other I’ve ever run into on lemmy.
I made a comment for each point so the details wouldn’t get lost in huge posts.
Here is my actual, 100% what I have knowledge to support, position:
- carbohydrates are not essential
- fat is healthy and shouldn’t be avoided
- cico isn’t helpful
- industrial food oils are not good for you
- cholesterol is healthy
- meat is healthy, avoiding meat is bad for health
- grains should be avoided and not be the base of people’s diets
carbohydrates are essential
Correct. In that sugars and starches are the main thing human metabolize for energy. You can avoid them and fuel yourself on fat. But some carbohydrates are structural, and hence the lack of them is extremely harmful. Grouping all carbohydrates is a gross oversimplification.
If you say that the lack of a carbohydrate is harmful, that makes carbohydrates essential. Which carbohydrate is essential?
Here is a writeup on how carbohydrates are not essential at all, and human health does not suffer from their absence. Confronting myths: relative and absolute requirements of dietary carbohydrates and glucose as metabolic fuels. - 2024
Yes. You can live on a keto diet.
Now you confuse me… Was your comment above being earnest or mythical?
carbohydrates are structural, and hence the lack of them is extremely harmful.
I don’t understand this line, does’t it contradict
You can live on a keto diet.
??
cico is helpful
Very helpful, and should be common knowledge.
Strong disagree.
from a comment below
Calories in calories out. CICO. It’s given to people as the ultimate truth to health and fitness. It’s technically correct but not helpful for a few reasons
The laws of thermodynamics apply to reality, however in human nutrition there are some problems
- humans are not a closed system
- humans do transfers of mass all the time drinking, eating, peeing, pooping, sweating.
A much more clinically relevant model, to helping people solve their health problems, is the carbohydrate insulin model of obesity.
That is to say consumption of carbohydrates drives insulin, insulin drives obesity and drives most of the modern problems people are trying to fix. Cardiovascular issues, hypertension, neuropathy, fatty liver disease, PCOS etc etc etc
As an example consider a person who wants to gain or lose 1 lb in a month. If they’re eating three meals a day, that means they need to eat 30 calories less per meal. There’s no way anybody can accurately measure their calories down to 30 per meal. It’s much more effective to let the human machinery operate and do it homeostasis job, and that’s principally done by keeping insulin levels low and allowing the hormones to work.
Now I’m really confused.
Did you flip your own arguments in your initial comment or not?
The advice people have been given since the 1950s is wrong.
The bullet list is the correct advice.
Considering their responses to my comment, no.
They did NOT flip their arguments.
Many of the points OP made are indeed true. You would be the one stuck with the myths ;)
No, they’re overcorrecting to the point of being myths in the opposite direction.
- Carbs ARE essential to your body, but your body can make them from quite a few things, making them an unimportant part of a diet, especially since they’re easy to get more of.
- Fat isn’t unhealthy by itself, but saturated fats make it VERY easy to over-eat fat.
- CICO is exactly how thermodynamics itself works… Your body isn’t magic. The lies come from people who claim counting calories on the labels is all you need to do.
- industrial oils are only bad in so far as they are not pure, just like most industrialized products. (think acceptable levels of rat turds in food)
- meat is a part of a healthy diet, yes, but many people eat too much of it for how sedentary their lifestyle is.
I stand behind everything I said. I’m happy to provide references if any specific thing is interesting to you
What is cico? (Not native speaker here)
Calories In, Calories Out. Basically means that you should be aware of the amount of calories you eat (calories in) vs the calories you burn (calories out).
Calories in calories out. CICO. It’s given to people as the ultimate truth to health and fitness. It’s technically correct but not helpful for a few reasons
The laws of thermodynamics apply to reality, however in human nutrition there are some problems
- humans are not a closed system
- humans do transfers of mass all the time drinking, eating, peeing, pooping, sweating.
A much more clinically relevant model, to helping people solve their health problems, is the carbohydrate insulin model of obesity.
That is to say consumption of carbohydrates drives insulin, insulin drives obesity and drives most of the modern problems people are trying to fix. Cardiovascular issues, hypertension, neuropathy, fatty liver disease, PCOS etc etc etc
As an example consider a person who wants to gain or lose 1 lb in a month. If they’re eating three meals a day, that means they need to eat 30 calories less per meal. There’s no way anybody can accurately measure their calories down to 30 per meal. It’s much more effective to let the human machinery operate and do it homeostasis job, and that’s principally done by keeping insulin levels low and allowing the hormones to work.
Wat.
There’s no way anybody can accurately measure their calories down to 30 per meal.
That’s why that’s not a recommendation anyone gives but “eat on average x amount of calories less than you use in a day” which is fairly easy to accomplish.
